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Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

bbc.com

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Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#31

Post by emil0r »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #14
tptacek wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. You train a lot of app pentesters and you get used to warning them: do not try this at home . You know you can just edit a URL in your browser by just a couple characters and poof be an admin. It should would be interesting to find out what it's like to be an admin on this site... oh, wait, if I do that I might end up talking to a prosecutor. That's obviously not a normative description. I don't think it's good…

> I don't think it's good that the world works like that, although I probably blame different people than most of HN. Who do you blame, out of curiosity?

The cat.

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#32

Post by tzs »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #21
tptacek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? I don't have the data at my fingertips but if I had to bet, I'd bet that it's much less than 6 years. Google: [popehat whale sushi]. One reason you're terrified is that our system (idiotically) goes out of its way to deceptively terrify people. It is in practice not as bad as i…

>>> What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? Here's a list for you: http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-bigg... Up until this week it was Albert Gonzalez for got 20 years for his role in the TJX retail break in. Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You…

> Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You get sentenced to 20 years, you do 20 years, period.

That's not correct. See 18 USC 3624. You can get up 54 days credit for good behavior toward your sentence per year served.

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#33

Post by lucb1e »

hoozters wrote: post #9

Wow.. so in Sweden he first got 2 years, reduced to one. Imagine that being in the united states. What, 25 to life? Just saying, it's interesting how this concept of "justice" is treated so subjectively depending on where on this planet you are located. Nothing new under the sun, but still.

You don't think that does it justice? I don't know the details of the case, but imagine being locked up for two years yourself, regardless of the crime. I'm 21 and I know I would feel like it's forever. I'd do anything to better my life after that. At least that's what I tell myself now, never having been imprisoned.

Now the person being tried here is not 21 anymore and he is actually guilty of something and should be punished... but 25 years, really?

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#34

Post by tzs »

jimrandomh wrote: post #2

> Defence lawyers said although the hack attacks were carried out using a computer owned by Mr Warg, he was not the person that used it to steal the files. Instead, they said, an unnamed hacker took over this machine and used it to carry out the attacks. Given the circumstances, this claim seems obviously true. People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies.

> People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies.

That's possibly [1] true, but aren't those broken-into computers almost always the computers of ordinary users? How often do the people breaking into computers use broken-into computers belonging to a computer security expert who knows how to protect their systems from such break-ins?

[1] Not sure about the "usually" part.

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#35

Post by jlouis »

Random guesses from a Dane about tomorrow where the length of the sentence is to be determined. You can come back in 24 hours and vote based on the real outcome of a couple of these points, hehe:

- Anakata will get a sentence somewhere in the upper middle. My guess is 4-5 years of which he has already served some.

- JT will get a somewhat mild sentence of nothing higher than 1 year. The case against him is pretty weak, compared to Anakata.

- The case will almost instantly be appealed by Anakata.

- JT may not want to appeal if the sentence is somewhere in the middle of the 2 years window. The reason is the extra jail time he has served will be compensated by the state and the state might be seeking a sentence in the middle to "encourage" him not to appeal. Appealing might increase the sentence and you would be paid less.

The case might go all the way to højestreret, which is the highest court in Denmark. There is also a chance the case could end up in ECHR (European Court of Human Rights), though I feel that chance is slighter. It would depend on the sentence of JT. If it ends up being a conditional sentence, then the jail time he has served is definitely going to have been unfair. As for Anakata, it is a bit more bleak I feel, since the argument of flight from the country applies, like it did in Sweden.

What is really likely to push this to ECHR however, is the inhumane isolation jail treatment and harsh conditions they've both received. It is not at all clear in any way to me why they satisfied the criterion for that at all.

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#36

Post by ghuntley »

grecy wrote: post #4

I find it hard to believe that a guy as smart as Gottfrid would "hack" a government computer in 2012 when he's obviously extremely aware of the magnifying glass that's on him from governments and companies all over the world. > the pair downloaded police and social security files. What exactly are those? and what would he even want them for? > In a separate trial in 2013, Mr Warg and accomplice were found guilty of b…

Actually, it's not hard to believe as Gottfrid is Anakata aka early '90s swedish scene / old school #hackse@efnet. This background along with his anti-government/privacy/free speech philosophies ultimately lead to founding of the swedish bulletproof ISP - PeRiQuito AB - ie. The Pirate Bay, Sunshine Press (WikiLeaks) and the North American Man/Boy Love Association.

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#37

Post by ewoodrich »

tzs wrote: post #32
at-fates-hands wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? Here's a list for you: http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-bigg... Up until this week it was Albert Gonzalez for got 20 years for his role in the TJX retail break in. Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You…

> Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You get sentenced to 20 years, you do 20 years, period. That's not correct. See 18 USC 3624. You can get up 54 days credit for good behavior toward your sentence per year served.

The parent may have confused good behavior with parole. The federal system does not have parole, so you can expect to serve at least 90% or so of your sentence, even with good behavior.

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#38

Post by rayiner »

mixmax wrote: post #30
lucb1e wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tried to establish Jacob Applebaum and Warg as friends because Applebaum retweeted one of Wargs tweets (only friends do that!) I understand the ignorance displayed by the judge here, but did the judge also see being Applebaum's friend as a bad thing?

Applebaum was an expert witness called in to testify on how a computer could be remote controlled, and the prosecutor tried to have him dismissed based on the retweet. He ended up testifying, so I guess the attempt wasn't successful.

I don't think that's a technically ignorant argument for a prosecutor to make. There's certainly a factual inference that could (but does not necessarily have to be drawn) between retweeting and being friends. Especially in the context of getting someone disqualified based on conflict of interest.

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#39

Post by bjourne »

grecy wrote: post #4

I find it hard to believe that a guy as smart as Gottfrid would "hack" a government computer in 2012 when he's obviously extremely aware of the magnifying glass that's on him from governments and companies all over the world. > the pair downloaded police and social security files. What exactly are those? and what would he even want them for? > In a separate trial in 2013, Mr Warg and accomplice were found guilty of b…

Prior to the trial against The Pirate Bay, when the police raided the ISP he was running with some partners, he was online and complained about it on a Swedish forum for web masters. Basically bragging about how they would never find any dirt on him, how the prosecutor was stupid, police were stupid and that "torrent linking site" just happened to be colocated on his servers.

I could link to it, but it's in Swedish and pseudonyms were used so you probably wouldn't get so much out of it.

My point is that complaining about your equipment being seized on an internet forum is not a smart thing to do.

Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

#40

Post by lawnchair_larry »

tzs wrote: post #34
jimrandomh wrote: post #2

> Defence lawyers said although the hack attacks were carried out using a computer owned by Mr Warg, he was not the person that used it to steal the files. Instead, they said, an unnamed hacker took over this machine and used it to carry out the attacks. Given the circumstances, this claim seems obviously true. People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies.

> People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies. That's possibly [1] true, but aren't those broken-into computers almost always the computers of ordinary users? How often do the people breaking into computers use broken-into computers belonging to a computer security expert who knows how to protect their systems from such break-ins? [1] Not sure about the "usually" part.

How often do the people breaking into computers use broken-into computers belonging to a computer security expert who knows how to protect their systems from such break-ins?

I know it's counterintuitive, but all the time. Until only a few years ago, it was almost as if every security expert was being publicly owned constantly. Hackers hack each other.

The dirty secret that explains why they would hack those who can protect their systems: nobody knows how to protect their systems. The best firewall is not pissing off hackers.

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