Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
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Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#2> Defence lawyers said although the hack attacks were carried out using a computer owned by Mr Warg, he was not the person that used it to steal the files. Instead, they said, an unnamed hacker took over this machine and used it to carry out the attacks.
Given the circumstances, this claim seems obviously true. People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies.
Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#3> Defence lawyers said although the hack attacks were carried out using a computer owned by Mr Warg, he was not the person that used it to steal the files. Instead, they said, an unnamed hacker took over this machine and used it to carry out the attacks. Given the circumstances, this claim seems obviously true. People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies.
Are you familiar with the evidence the court considered? Is it instead the case that you'd have a hard time convicting anyone of hacking-related crimes under any circumstances because of the possibility that someone else might have been pulling the strings?
Often when cases like this are reported, the evidentiary details don't make it into the story. It's easy to understand why someone would have a problem with a conviction when all the information they have is the BBC's 10,000ft summary.
What's worse is, that 10,000ft summary can bias you by framing the whole story in your mind. You're skeptical right off the bat. That's probably always healthy! But it's good to know how your mind is being primed to digest new information, too.
Obviously, sometimes you get the details and the case doesn't get less murky. The Aurenheimer case is an example; I don't have a clue what to think about it, and would like to think that whatever my prejudices are, I'd have been a not-guilty vote in a jury based on that doubt.
Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#4I find it hard to believe that a guy as smart as Gottfrid would "hack" a government computer in 2012 when he's obviously extremely aware of the magnifying glass that's on him from governments and companies all over the world.
> the pair downloaded police and social security files.
What exactly are those? and what would he even want them for?
> In a separate trial in 2013, Mr Warg and accomplice were found guilty of breaking into the computer systems of computer services firm Logica, which was doing work for Sweden's tax office and a bank.
Again, why would he hack into a bank knowing so many eyes are on him?
Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#5I find it hard to believe that a guy as smart as Gottfrid would "hack" a government computer in 2012 when he's obviously extremely aware of the magnifying glass that's on him from governments and companies all over the world. > the pair downloaded police and social security files. What exactly are those? and what would he even want them for? > In a separate trial in 2013, Mr Warg and accomplice were found guilty of b…
That's a reasonable concern to have, but it's worth being aware that it's the exact same concern people had about Hans Reiser. Intelligence and judgement are orthogonal, and sometimes even in slight opposition.
If you want to consider a different perspective: I'm an example of someone who does not have a hard time understand how someone who has enjoyed the rush of getting over on the entire media industry from behind a computer screen might find it harmless or at least personally safe to hack into some dumb server on the Internet and read documents off it.
I've been a pentester for the last 10 years and in my experience, taking advantage of the knowledge of how to break into an application is an urge that takes some energy to suppress.
Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#6I find it hard to believe that a guy as smart as Gottfrid would "hack" a government computer in 2012 when he's obviously extremely aware of the magnifying glass that's on him from governments and companies all over the world. > the pair downloaded police and social security files. What exactly are those? and what would he even want them for? > In a separate trial in 2013, Mr Warg and accomplice were found guilty of b…
That's a reasonable concern to have, but it's worth being aware that it's the exact same concern people had about Hans Reiser. Intelligence and judgement are orthogonal, and sometimes even in slight opposition. If you want to consider a different perspective: I'm an example of someone who does not have a hard time understand how someone who has enjoyed the rush of getting over on the entire media industry from behind…
Could not agree more. There's always that voice in the back of your head wondering why you got a funky error message when your input contained an apostrophe; it doesn't take a lot to tip over the edge into something risky, even if you're conscious of the attention on you.
Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a reasonable concern to have, but it's worth being aware that it's the exact same concern people had about Hans Reiser. Intelligence and judgement are orthogonal, and sometimes even in slight opposition. If you want to consider a different perspective: I'm an example of someone who does not have a hard time understand how someone who has enjoyed the rush of getting over on the entire media industry from behind…
Could not agree more. There's always that voice in the back of your head wondering why you got a funky error message when your input contained an apostrophe; it doesn't take a lot to tip over the edge into something risky, even if you're conscious of the attention on you.
Yep. You train a lot of app pentesters and you get used to warning them: do not try this at home. You know you can just edit a URL in your browser by just a couple characters and poof be an admin. It should would be interesting to find out what it's like to be an admin on this site... oh, wait, if I do that I might end up talking to a prosecutor.
That's obviously not a normative description. I don't think it's good that the world works like that, although I probably blame different people than most of HN.
Anyways, point being: the assumption that a very smart person wouldn't dream of breaking into a government server: does not at all square with my experience. Doesn't make the assumption wrong; it's just a data point.
Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#8> Defence lawyers said although the hack attacks were carried out using a computer owned by Mr Warg, he was not the person that used it to steal the files. Instead, they said, an unnamed hacker took over this machine and used it to carry out the attacks. Given the circumstances, this claim seems obviously true. People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies.
Are you familiar with the evidence the court considered? Is it instead the case that you'd have a hard time convicting anyone of hacking-related crimes under any circumstances because of the possibility that someone else might have been pulling the strings? Often when cases like this are reported, the evidentiary details don't make it into the story. It's easy to understand why someone would have a problem with a con…
This comment should somehow be auto-posted into every HN thread about popular news accounts of criminal computer use. Maybe added to the HN guidelines. Or both.
Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#9Wow.. so in Sweden he first got 2 years, reduced to one. Imagine that being in the united states. What, 25 to life? Just saying, it's interesting how this concept of "justice" is treated so subjectively depending on where on this planet you are located. Nothing new under the sun, but still.
Re: Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term
#10I find it hard to believe that a guy as smart as Gottfrid would "hack" a government computer in 2012 when he's obviously extremely aware of the magnifying glass that's on him from governments and companies all over the world. > the pair downloaded police and social security files. What exactly are those? and what would he even want them for? > In a separate trial in 2013, Mr Warg and accomplice were found guilty of b…
That's a reasonable concern to have, but it's worth being aware that it's the exact same concern people had about Hans Reiser. Intelligence and judgement are orthogonal, and sometimes even in slight opposition. If you want to consider a different perspective: I'm an example of someone who does not have a hard time understand how someone who has enjoyed the rush of getting over on the entire media industry from behind…
The local police force here has a test to see if you 'have what it takes' to be a part of their cyber security squad or whatever they call it. On a lark I took part in it (the test was pretty simple, at least, that's what I thought). After taking the test (and knowing full well I had no intention to follow through on applying for a job with them, I just can't look at puzzles without getting this itch to solve them) I realized I may have just given out some information that I had better keep to myself, which is to advertise a capability.
Having a capability and advertising it is already stupid in my book, and more the fool I am I slipped up there. But having such a capability, subsequently approaching machines that you have no permission for, repeatedly attempting to gain access, succeeding at that and then to actually retrieve data that you have no right to when you're already in a position of extreme suspicion with the authorities to me borders on the insane. I really can't understand even for one second why someone as gifted as this would act in this way, it is something I've been wondering about with a lot of these so called hackers. What drives them to do this, obviously the downsides of successfully showing off their skill end up in a head-on collision with forces they can't possibly hope to defeat.
It's all fun and games until the SWAT team arrives.
Have there been any studies on the psychology of people that are pathologically drawn to breaking in to other people's computer systems?