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How do you get to write so well in HN?

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Re: How do you get to write so well in HN?

#91

Great question. I think it's on more people's minds than you think. I have friends that have brought this feeling up with me. HN brings a lot of great minds together, including your own. It can create feelings of inadequacy in many readers, but it shouldn't. Everyone is always growing. You can write well too. As with any skill, there are specific quick hacks you can apply to get a lot of gain really fast, and there a…

While this is a good way to learn about things in depth, I'd be wary of overusing it. It could have detrimental effects when commenting on topics way outside your domain knowledge (lower comment quality or worse - a misinformed comment). Also, it limits the scope of topics that you might end up developing an interest in.

Interestingly, the way I consume articles and forums is almost completely opposite. I skim through anything that catches my fancy, which helps me discover new topics that are interesting to me, and I only contribute when I have something completely new and valuable to add to the discussion. Often times you find that someone has already mentioned what you wanted contribute. The exceptions are when you are an expert in the field and hence more likely to have knowledge that is not common.

Re: How do you get to write so well in HN?

#92
If you are a undisciplined writer like me, you will have to find the theme of your post after writing it. In the goulash of your initial stream of writing, look for a kernel or thought that clarifies your point. Use that kernel as a logic driver to select words and organize your sentences in support of that theme. You know you are have found the kernel when you start removing words. ;)

Re: How do you get to write so well in HN?

#93
post #89

I don't understand why or how something that contains these paragraphs: " I find it not justice that "Tim Cook Speaks Up" is eating my cake. What if I am only a heterosexual guy, a troll and my only goal is to get some karma points. I realize that the language topic is a pure one and that it should be separated (sanned) from a egotists, only looking for karma points guy. But what?, you guys are beautiful and construc…

I don't think it contained those last two paragraphs when first posted.

Re: How do you get to write so well in HN?

#94
The lessons for getting started are quite standard. First, you need three books or, now, Web sites, one for each of a good English dictionary, a good English grammar, and a good book on rhetoric. For a dictionary, sure, something by, say, Webster's. For grammar, something used in senior English in high school or freshman English in college. For rhetoric, sure, Strunk and White, The Elements of Style. Not nearly new stuff. For more, The Chicago Manual of Style can provide clear answers to some tricky questions, good answers not easy to find elsewhere.

Then you iterate: (1) You write something, a postcard, an e-mail, a birthday card, a blog post, a love letter, an elevator pitch, a term paper, etc. Hopefully you can get others to read what you wrote and get some feedback or at least some reactions. Then with what you noticed yourself while writing and from the feedback, you identify some issues or problems in your writing. (2) You read, hopefully well written material. Here maybe the best is good material from the STEM fields and good material from the world of literature. In that reading, you try to see how that writing solved the problems you noticed so far in your writing. And you try to learn more. Then you return to (1) and iterate again.

Then for the iterations of (1) and (2), devote at least 10 years before you expect a lot of improvement. Good writing skills are likely the most difficult learning considered in education, and I say that is a devoted STEM student with high contempt for belle lettre. As a college prof, I saw that the adult evening students, while not very good as students, were much better at writing than even the good students of usual college age -- the extra years of reading and writing, in a deliberate effort to learn more or not, were the huge difference. Net, the learning takes years -- call that decades.

For STEM writing, there are some special techniques. Maybe the best, pure form of these techniques and, thus, the easiest to place to learn is in the best quality pure math and mathematical physics. For pure math, sure, emphasize Halmos, Rudin, Bourbaki, von Neumann, Breiman, Neveu, authors of college texts on abstract algebra, e.g., Herstein, etc. There are lots of highly polished freshman calculus texts, and can learn a lot about STEM field writing from those examples. A good text on freshman college physics also has some really good lessons to teach on STEM field writing. Maybe you want the math/physics and maybe not, but there are good writing lessons there. For writing in computer science, sure, like it or not, Knuth's, The Art of Computer Programming. Knuth's a good writer on computing, e.g., just his The TeXBook is some especially good STEM field writing.

For literature, one of the main goals, whether they say so or not, is art as in the common definition of the communication, interpretation of human experience, emotion. To oversimplify, call such writing belle lettre.

With some irony, belle lettre commonly is really good communicating the passion, pathos, poignancy, plight, and pain, and other such awful alliteration, of the human condition but otherwise nearly useless at communicating something effective to alleviate the pain, etc. Then the STEM fields and its writing are less good at the emotional communications but now in this the 21st century often just astoundingly good at getting really solid, safe, effective solutions to the pains. Which you prefer is your choice!

Or, in simple terms, do you want to suffer with the pains or do something about them? Yes, I know this remark is judgmental, provocative, potentially pejorative, and other such awful alliteration. Here people can agree to disagree, and YMMV.

I'm no good at writing, but the above is the best I know about learning how to do it. And a lot that I'm saying is quite standard -- not nearly new, for more awful alliteration.

Go for it. And, here on HN, show us what you're getting and what you've got! When you've got lessons for other learners, show us those, too!

Good news: There are a lot of people who are plenty bright enough to write really well but are nowhere nearly bright enough to have anything worth saying! Lesson: Don't have to be very bright to write well! Or, if you are bright enough to have something to say, then nearly necessarily you are more than bright enough to be able to learn to say it well!

Re: How do you get to write so well in HN?

#95
post #89

I don't understand why or how something that contains these paragraphs: " I find it not justice that "Tim Cook Speaks Up" is eating my cake. What if I am only a heterosexual guy, a troll and my only goal is to get some karma points. I realize that the language topic is a pure one and that it should be separated (sanned) from a egotists, only looking for karma points guy. But what?, you guys are beautiful and construc…

I don't think it contained those last two paragraphs when first posted.

But for how long does that text stay editable? One hour? This thing is more than 4 hours old, doesn't that mean it got the majority of its support after the edit was made?

Re: How do you get to write so well in HN?

#96
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a phenomenal reply tokenadult. Would you be willing to reply to the same question if I post it in http://writers.stackexchange.com/ ?

ELL [+] is perhaps a better fit for this question? [+] http://ell.stackexchange.com/ "English Language Learners Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for speakers of other languages learning English."

Well, the original question was specific to writing. The author in fact does not say whether English is a second language.

Re: How do you get to write so well in HN?

#99
Writing is rewriting.

For example, this ought to be rewritten:

> I find it not justice that "Tim Cook Speaks Up" is eating my cake. What if I am only a heterosexual guy, a troll and my only goal is to get some karma points.

So should this:

> I realize that the language topic is a pure one and that it should be separated (sanned) from a egotists, only looking for karma points guy. But what?, you guys are beautiful and constructive, sorry for not just being that type.

Can you rewrite the first quote without using "is eating my cake" and using something like "I don't find it just"?

Can you rewrite the second quote without "is a pure one" and without "sanned" (I have no idea what that is supposed to mean) and "separated from a egostists"?

Can you rewrite it without abusing the punctuation, i.e. without using a question mark right before a comma?

Can you write 10 different versions of each quote?

Re: How do you get to write so well in HN?

#100
Go ahead, take a swim in this ocean of mediocrity. See the button below the box? It says add comment. Not 'Submit Dissertation'. Not 'Final Opinion'. Just remarks made in passing. Like tears, in rain.

Don't try to imitate 'diction' or 'mastery'. Express yourself as simply as you can.

And don't feel bad if you can't express something naturally in English. There are limits to the language. You are most likely able to imagine things you cannot precisely say in English.

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