How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA • Hacker News Board

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#51

Post by grecy » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:08 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #25

The takeaway from all of this: employers in the U.S. do not care about mothers of young children at all, unless we’re consumers of their products. It might be more accurate to say that they view us as horrible useless burdens who need to be ushered back to full-time work as swiftly as possible. They will do anything in their power to keep employees from exercising their federally guaranteed rights to twelve weeks of…

I think it can be simplified further:

employers in the U.S. do not care about employees at all, unless we’re consumers of their products. It might be more accurate to say that they view us as horrible useless burdens who need to be ushered back to full-time work as swiftly as possible. They will do anything in their power to keep employees from exercising their federally guaranteed rights to twelve weeks of MOTHERFUCKING UNPAID LEAVE, up to and including forcing employees to give up paid sick leave.

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#52

Post by onion2k » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:08 PM UTC

Mothers in the UK get a full year of maternity leave at 90% pay for the first 6 weeks and then about $200/week after. You can elect to return to work earlier (although you have to take at least 2 weeks). You can start the maternity leave up to 11 weeks before the due date.

And the UK isn't even particularly progressive about this sort of thing. Norwegians get 13 months at 80% pay followed by up to a year unpaid. In Spain you can take up to 3 years unpaid.

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#53

Post by darkstar999 » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:09 PM UTC

jnsaff2 wrote: post #40

ceejayoz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnDi8KlIIAA750F.png US provides zero weeks paid maternity leave. Pakistan provides 12. Venezuela manages 18. Canada does 50. Per Wikipedia, the US joins Papua New Guinea, Suriname, and Liberia as the only countries to not provide paid parental leave of any kind.

Estonia has 78 weeks of paid Maternity OR Paternity leave, parents can choose which one stays home and gets to take care of the baby.

What? That's ridiculous. Does the employer pay or is it government assistance?

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#54

Post by learc83 » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:09 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #36

shawabawa3 wrote: post #24

I find the whole notion of "sick days" and accruing them bizarre. What happens if you're sick but don't have enough sick days saved? Are you fired? Stop getting payed? For comparison, this is how sick leave works in the uk: https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave And I don't want to even get in to how fucked up it is to have to save up years of vacation days to take some time off when you have a baby

> I find the whole notion of "sick days" and accruing them bizarre. Agreed. Companies here in the US are pretty stingy with them, too, causing people to come to work sick where they get everyone else sick too. > What happens if you're sick but don't have enough sick days saved? Are you fired? Stop getting payed? You stop getting paid and can be fired if the company wishes. Some companies are subject to FMLA, which pr…

I really think that a minimum number of sick days should be mandatory as a public health measure.

The amount of lost productivity caused by sick people infecting their coworkers per year has to be immense.

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#55

Post by CalRobert » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:09 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #25

The takeaway from all of this: employers in the U.S. do not care about mothers of young children at all, unless we’re consumers of their products. It might be more accurate to say that they view us as horrible useless burdens who need to be ushered back to full-time work as swiftly as possible. They will do anything in their power to keep employees from exercising their federally guaranteed rights to twelve weeks of…

My wife and I moved to the EU about two years ago on something of a lark (we're both politically left-of-center people who prefer transit to driving everywhere, and we like seeing castles in the countryside). We have every intention of staying here as long as possible, and the VASTLY superior policy and attitude towards quality of life is a huge part of it. The US hates its own people and cloaks the sentiment in language touting "economic freedom".

Fortunately, the US also is home to one of the most environmentally damaging populaces in the world, so if anyone is going to have fewer babies, it should be them.

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#56

Post by Pxtl » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:10 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #33

PeterisP wrote: post #8

Pretty much every country in the world, both 'first-world' and poor countries, has it better than USA in this regard. Let this serve as a warning for young (age-with-a-potential-to-have-a-family) people who might be tempted to relocate to California - you have to ask for a significant premium in salary, since even in good companies (the OP lists multiple items where her job is considered 'above average') you're simpl…

Yup. http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnDi8KlIIAA750F.png US provides zero weeks paid maternity leave. Pakistan provides 12. Venezuela manages 18. Canada does 50. Per Wikipedia, the US joins Papua New Guinea, Suriname, and Liberia as the only countries to not provide paid parental leave of any kind.

Important to note that these are government leave programs. A big problem in the USA is that it is expected that your employer handle this stuff.

Here in Canada, the employment insurance system - a payroll-tax-funded program that handles short-term unemployment benefits - also handles parental leave. They offer 4 months for birth mothers and a an additional 8 months for any parent. The money is tiny - something like half your salary capped to a poverty-level wage, but it's better than nothing and good employers will subsidize it somewhat.

My wife and I split the leave with our 3rd kid. 5 months for her, 7 for me. It's easily some of the happiest days of my life.

There is no reason that private companies should be expected to shoulder this burden. It's practically punishing them for hiring women who want a family. This is the exact kind of case that government exists for.

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#57

Post by StronglyTyped » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:10 PM UTC

The problem has nothing to do with the country. The problem is that the HR clerk, like all HR clerks, is an idiot.

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#58

Post by rdtsc » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:11 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #45

rdtsc wrote: post #3

Aside from police brutality, all the spying and erosion of privacy, corruption at high level (like regulatory capture), the medical and insurance situation points more to the fact that this country -- US, is not a civilized country. It is a country with a high GDP, strong military, good natural resources, strong manufacturing. All those nice things. But it is still not a civilized country.

Its unfortunate that there are not laws preventing things like this from happening. Too many people in the US do not want the government to impose laws or regulations just because they oppose any government interference what so ever. Even if the interference will benefit everyone. People have a choice where they work. Had this happened to me I would be high tailing it out of there but professors dont have that luxury…

It is sad how people who would benefit most from it can easily be brainwashed to vote against it. This is summed best by the ironic "get your government out of my Medicare" slogan. It is not a real slogan but it is used as a joke to illustrate the underlying logic.

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#59

Post by themoonbus » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:11 PM UTC

Sometimes I'm immensely proud to be part of this country (second-generation immigrant), but reading things like this make me feel like I live in the most backwards place in the world.

The richest country somehow can't provide a basic standard of living for so many of its citizens.

Re: How My Employer Put the “FML” in FMLA

#60

Post by Pxtl » Thu, Oct 30, 2014, 4:11 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #4

Few things make my blood boil more than people that robotically say things like "It's the policy" with the kind of compassion and empathy that a robot would show, and then go about their business without a care in the world.

At the very least when dealing with monstrous policy, the correct thing to do is refer them to somebody who has the power to change the policy.