Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#281

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 4:47 PM UTC

boomlinde wrote: post #234

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if I have a keyboard on my tablet that is running Android? I think the point here is that "desktop" as a location has no real meaning - it's the use case that defines it rely. By desktop system one really means a day-to-day used system that is used for word-processing, web browsing and other standard domestic/work uses (photo editing, spreadsheets, games and such). That's the stuff a desktop system has always don…

> The hardware form is just about convenience it [no longer] describes a logical difference or significant processing ability What exactly is a logical difference in this case, and how is it relevant to the discussion? Is my decision illogical if I consider the ergonomic implications of using a particular hardware/software platform? Aside from ergonomics, I'm not sure what is so controversial about assuming that the…

I wasn't suggesting you choice was illogical, I was expressing that the ability of a phablet, say, to process data and run computing operations has a logical equivalence (in the processing sense) in a "desktop"; and then mentioning that whilst the processing power may generally differ there is substantial overlap (eg phones having more processing power and RAM than some desktops, etc.). The "logical" part was to contrast the physical differences.

You can use a smartphone with a bluetooth keyboard to write business docs with wordprocessing apps or construct spreadsheets (you could use the on-screen keyboard if you're a masochist). Different physical interfaces target different use cases as we've both noted but the distinction is more about marketing than ability of a system.

Going back to where this all came from I doubt this discussion is fruitful.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#282

Post by nailer » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 4:48 PM UTC

Shamanmuni wrote: post #244

nailer wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you think I don't know why they exist, but Chromium is quite different from Chrome: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoo...

I know that you know it, I was talking about your hypothetical user. Except for the color of the icon and the lack of support by default for AAC, H.264 and MP3 (I have support for those 3 in Chromium in Arch), do you find anything relevant that will make some non-expert notice they are using Chromium and not Chrome?

No I don't, the codec issues are enough.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#283

Post by wnevets » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 4:52 PM UTC

shawabawa3 wrote: post #221

vomitcuddle wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Android doesn't have that Android has Nexus and Google Play Edition phones.

The Nexus comes with some HP printer crapware that can't be removed without rooting (My Nexus 5 did at least)

I got my Nexus 5 from tmobile and it had nothing of the sort.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#284

Post by happy_ginger » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 4:52 PM UTC

aespinoza wrote: post #277

I hope they change the options. I think this is way too long for a command: * Install-Package -Name firefox When in Linux I can just do this: * apt-get install firefox I would love to see this: Package -install firefox

That is pretty much an impossibility as it's a Powershell cmdlet which follows a verb-noun rule for naming things.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#285

Post by damurdock » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 4:55 PM UTC

treerock wrote: post #227

Ronsenshi wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, it was kinda funny. I don't see why we can't find it humorous that year after year someone says that the next year will be a year of Linux. I love Linux - been using it for several years and wouldn't trade it for anything (be it OS X or Win with package manager). Package manager is certainly an awesome thing, but not something that would make me (and probably anyone else using Linux) to switch over.

Yesterday I had to update my rarely used Windows partition and install some software for work. Virus/Firewall updates, Windows updates, Java updates, repeated forced reboots (four times in total) and playing hunt and peck with all these 'suspicious behaviour' popups, remembering to untick the 'install dodgy toolbar' checkboxes. I'm starting to feel that a decent package manager is the main reason I continue to use Li…

Just a side note, there's a software called "Unchecky" that will automatically uncheck most "Free Toolbar!" installs.

But you're right, it's kind of staggering going from "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" to Windows'... whatever.

Heck, even most programs in OSX will autoupdate, not to mention Homebrew and Homebrew-cask.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#286

Post by trentnelson » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 4:56 PM UTC

useerup wrote: post #144

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? What's the point? The point is portability. People now write all of their server software for Linux. More people would bother porting it to Windows if doing so was easier. Example: There is no Windows equivalent to epoll/kqueue. Neither of them is even POSIX. But if you bring this up to most Windows people they tell you to use IO completion ports, which are totally different and require the core of the program…

> There is no Windows equivalent to epoll/kqueue There is: Overlapped IO: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms68... > But if you bring this up to most Windows people they tell you to use IO completion ports, which are totally different and require the core of the program to be redesigned IO completion ports and epoll both require the programs flow logic to be designed for them. If a program has…

You, I like you.

(https://speakerdeck.com/trent/pyparallel-how-we-removed-the-...)

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#287

Post by shawabawa3 » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 5:04 PM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #283

shawabawa3 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nexus comes with some HP printer crapware that can't be removed without rooting (My Nexus 5 did at least)

I got my Nexus 5 from tmobile and it had nothing of the sort.

I got mine directly from the google play store (UK)

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#288

Post by kyllo » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 5:07 PM UTC

wallyhs wrote: post #269

kyllo wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows locks executable files and dells while they are being used, so it's not possible for an installer to overwrite them Exactly, and Linux doesn't do that, hence my comment. The Windows model is flawed--why do you need to lock a binary on disk when a copy of it is running in main memory? Linux just lets the installer overwrite the files on disk, so there's no need to restart the whole OS, just the program whose f…

Why do you need to lock a binary on disk when a copy of it is running in main memory? Because the copy in memory may still want to use the old version. Raymond Chen explained it here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2008.11.windowsc...

To prevent DLL Hell, in other words.

Again, not a problem on Linux because Linux keeps numbered versions of .so files.

So it's not that Windows has to restart after replacing a file that is in use. It's just that it would rather not deal with the complexity that results if it doesn't.

In other words, "we didn't want to bother with versioning DLLs."

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#289

Post by Fuzzwah » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 5:11 PM UTC

I'm coming to this massive comment party late, but I wanted to drop my thoughts about this and explain why I'm personally very excited by OneGet.

I'm a very experienced Windows Server Admin (15 years). I'm also a fairly experienced Linux Server Admin (7 years, on and off).

I'm currently an SCCM guru for a ~4000 user organisation.

I'm sure that if OneGet is supported by MS to the level which the developer explained in the reddit thread it'll be a boon to power users managing their own systems and to desktop support people.

But I can imagine that it'll be the SCCM teams who can leverage the most out of it.

The thought of being able to deploy and manage software across desktops and servers in a similar way to apt or yum makes me feel something close to utter joy.

I've had to build some very complex task sequences to install software on corporate machines. The worst example I can give is MS's own Dynamics CRM application. I was seriously proud of the batch files, registry inserts, dll hell avoidance, dependency solving, mother of all automated install processes to get Dynamics installed and hooked into Outlook in a magical way that the end user had no clue the complexity of.

It was only after slugging through developing all of the above that I found the incredible PowerShell App Deployment Toolkit [1], which people smarter than me had developed to basically handle everything I'd just slogged through.

From what I see OneGet has the potential of allowing us to easily push installs and updates via SCCM with out having to rely on 3rd party tools, batch files, msi rebuilding and general hackery.

Even if it doesn't gain wide support from software vendors, just enabling me to rip everything out of an msi and repackage it into a private OneGet repo sounds superior to having to rely on complex SCCM task sequences.

I'll be watching this closely.

[1] https://psappdeploytoolkit.codeplex.com/

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#290

Post by benjin » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 5:12 PM UTC

treerock wrote: post #227

Ronsenshi wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, it was kinda funny. I don't see why we can't find it humorous that year after year someone says that the next year will be a year of Linux. I love Linux - been using it for several years and wouldn't trade it for anything (be it OS X or Win with package manager). Package manager is certainly an awesome thing, but not something that would make me (and probably anyone else using Linux) to switch over.

Yesterday I had to update my rarely used Windows partition and install some software for work. Virus/Firewall updates, Windows updates, Java updates, repeated forced reboots (four times in total) and playing hunt and peck with all these 'suspicious behaviour' popups, remembering to untick the 'install dodgy toolbar' checkboxes. I'm starting to feel that a decent package manager is the main reason I continue to use Li…

>virus/firewall updates

You're still using third-party software for that? There's part of your problem! Getting rid of those would also kill of the "suspicious behavior" popups.