Why I can't have conversations using Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#91

Post by mathattack » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:11 PM UTC

chton wrote: post #6

There are conversations that work on twitter, and ones that don't. In general, twitter conversations are quick back-and-forth affairs. If you need more than 2 tweets to express your thought, you're either using the wrong medium or thinking too far. If that conversation model doesn't fit you, that's perfectly fine, but that's not the fault of twitter. It's just a bad match-up. In that case, it's perfectly fine to resp…

"If you need more than 2 tweets to express your thought, you're either using the wrong medium or thinking too far. If that conversation model doesn't fit you, that's perfectly fine, but that's not the fault of twitter."

Very true. It's like blaming a radio for not having pictures to go with an advertisement. Wrong tool. Echo chambers aren't good for in depth conversations.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#92

Post by untog » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:11 PM UTC

staz wrote: post #21

I don't think this is due to the limit of 140 characters (even if it doesn't help) but much more due to the audience of fanboys and crow cheered during a fight. There is the same problem on Google+ where there is not 140 characters limit. Any discussions with Linus or any other "celebrity" in it and the comments thread will be full of : "+1", "M. Linus you are so smart, you are my hero", "Well said, ripe him a new on…

There's also the problem of "dot-@ing", where instead of starting a tweet with "@staz", people start it with ".@staz", meaning that the tweet appears in the timeline of everyone who follows you.

I rarely see this used in situations that aren't passive aggressive attempts to get followers to pile onto someone you disagree with. Totally ruins any chance of good debate.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#93

Post by chton » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:13 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #89

chton wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, the two are synonyms in common parlance. I chose 'terse' because it's the usual converse of 'verbose'.

Terseness is short, abrupt, irritated. Succinctness is short, clearly explained. They both mean short, but the tones of the words are quite different. '"Leave me be!", he replied succinctly' doesn't work, for example. To me, this is exactly the kind of nuance that is lost by training yourself to limit ideas to 140 characters.

Terse also means short, clearly explained. Yes, 'terse' has an extra meaning, but in a technical context, and especially when contrasted with 'verbose', it should be completely clear which meaning I meant.

And for the record: I don't train myself to limit my thoughts, I train myself to use a form for expressing them appropriate to the medium I'm doing it in. Expressing something shorter and in steps is not inferior to long-winded explanations. If you must blame something for a fine nuance I failed to grasp, blame the fact that English is not my first language. I doubt I would have caught it in Dutch either, but at least that could be a valid reason.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#94

Post by untog » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:14 PM UTC

phaer wrote: post #18

mischanix wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much simpler to publish on Twitter than via RSS.

How exactly? In the time it takes you to register an account on twitter.com you could as well register an account on wordpress.com and publish via RSS. The main difference is that longer content is possible, that you could find even easier/faster/whatever alternatives because its federated and that your communications are not dependent on the policies of a single private company - which for non-us-citizens like me is…

One of the biggest things is that there is one, singular Twitter app. There are a million RSS readers, but it's difficult to know which one to get. And, of course, it's a reader, not a publisher - you need a separate app for that.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#95

Post by _pmf_ » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:14 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #91

chton wrote: post #6

There are conversations that work on twitter, and ones that don't. In general, twitter conversations are quick back-and-forth affairs. If you need more than 2 tweets to express your thought, you're either using the wrong medium or thinking too far. If that conversation model doesn't fit you, that's perfectly fine, but that's not the fault of twitter. It's just a bad match-up. In that case, it's perfectly fine to resp…

"If you need more than 2 tweets to express your thought, you're either using the wrong medium or thinking too far. If that conversation model doesn't fit you, that's perfectly fine, but that's not the fault of twitter." Very true. It's like blaming a radio for not having pictures to go with an advertisement. Wrong tool. Echo chambers aren't good for in depth conversations.

There are no use cases for Twitter in professional communication if your profession is not communication itself.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#96

Post by rdtsc » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:16 PM UTC

I don't use Twitter. Never signed up, never read it, unless someone I know posts a link to some insightful 140 character piece of text, which is rare.

It might be a good news headline spreading medium but not for conversations.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#97

Post by eli » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:17 PM UTC

rakoo wrote: post #69

chton wrote: post #6

There are conversations that work on twitter, and ones that don't. In general, twitter conversations are quick back-and-forth affairs. If you need more than 2 tweets to express your thought, you're either using the wrong medium or thinking too far. If that conversation model doesn't fit you, that's perfectly fine, but that's not the fault of twitter. It's just a bad match-up. In that case, it's perfectly fine to resp…

As a Twitter non-user, my recommendation would be: - Write a post explaining your views, and tweet the link to it.

One of the main reasons I have a blog.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#98

Post by annamarie » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:20 PM UTC

dangerlibrary wrote: post #90

annamarie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are people problems. Everyone likes being right + feeling important. Everyone is lazy. No one wants to be called out on it. If you are forced to keep it <140 char then no one can fault you for being lazy with your replies and critiques. Of course people are going to jump in and offer their brilliant opinions. Think about the low-cost high they can get.

This is a bit of a false dichotomy, I think. Of course there are good (and valid!) psychological explanations for the behavior patterns exhibited on Twitter. When I say something is a "Twitter problem," I mean that these patterns are less prevalent on other platforms. I mean that Twitter has created a scaffold for communication that encourages certain bad behaviors. One example: If I were to pluck the middle sentence…

Yeah, I can see your point, to say that it's a "twitter problem" for leaving that door open.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#99

Post by lhnz » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:22 PM UTC

This is unfortunately a case of Twitter biasing technical discussions to highly literate, careful people.

Good tweeting requires almost Orwellian control over writing.

It needs to be extremely terse and explicit.

You need to be the kind of person that will write a tweet, read it and if it could be misunderstood in any way delete it, before rewriting it several times.

You need to do this until you are able to fit each inalienable component fact into 140 characters.

This kind of writer is often careful to form only one idea per tweet, considers using mathematical notation if it requires less characters, and will finally consider placing a [...] on the end of sentences which leave their argument hanging. Though when you have to do a lot of these things, it's often because you have not fully analysed the concept to a point where you understand it well enough to say simply.

Re: Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

#100

Post by davidw » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 2:24 PM UTC

BTW, this also brings to mind another thing I've come to believe over the years:

> "You have clearly not understood how the math works or why tail latencies matter in dist sys. I think we're done here."

If, when you write something, it sounds like it's coming straight out of The Simpsons' "Comic Book Guy", you should probably rethink it unless you really mean to be a bit of a jerk.