Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#91

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:01 AM UTC

ANTSANTS wrote: post #55

dragonwriter wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being built on Linux as GP suggested doesn't mean its just Linux -- presumably you'd implementing Windows APIs on top of Linux. Think WINE, but without the disadvantage of having to be done by third parties. Though a more likely way, were Microsoft to want to bridge that gap, would be to have a solid first-party POSIX environment on top of Windows, rather than the other way around.

Why? What's the point? NT isn't bad at all, it's just different from POSIX (hell, I can't believe the irony of this statement, but I'm glad that Microsoft is still around to resist the POSIX monoculture ). Neither Microsoft nor the Free Software™ world would gain much from killing the NT kernel, but the latter camp would gain so much more from learning the lessons that made Windows so successful 20 goddamned years af…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#92

Post by gfodor » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:04 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #67

wfjackson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thankfully never seen a Windows Server with Flash, Reader, iTunes or VirtualBox installed, sounds like a security nightmare waiting to happen regardless updates. I also see lots of insecure and outdated applications running on Linux servers, especially Wordpress, Drupal, myphpadmin, cPanel etc. Heartbleed and Shellshock themselves are still not patched in a good percentage of servers.

I was merely providing examples everyone is familiar with. What software do you run on your Windows servers? And, how does it get updated?

I run a few windows servers maintained via ansible. There is a protocol called winrm built that is functionally equivalent to ssh for the purposes of remotely controlling a box. Ansible uses winrm to provision. Beyond that, chocolatey.org provides a complete package management solution as long as you are looking to install popular free (as in beer) software. Also, you need to learn powershell to do anything useful. It's painful but I have to sit back in awe at the extent of the APIs available to you from the powershell prompt, each one hand crafted by a Microsoft employee. Pretty much anything you need to from a OS configuration perspective can be done in powershell pretty easily.

Once you get over these couple of things it's not terrible. (though I of course widely prefer linux)

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#93

Post by aragot » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:12 AM UTC

cordite wrote: post #28

joenathan wrote: post #26

This will be a great way to automate Java and Flash updates, so users don't have play uncheck the adware every time there's an update.

Just hope that oracle doesn't try to sneak install the ask toolbar with every update.

Is there a reason why we have fewer of those problems with Mac OS X? I can see that the Windows audience often isn't tech-savvy enough to understand that Ask isn't part of Windows, and that's probably also because Chrome/Firefox/Safari are more diligent about managing extensions than IE. But there's a very serious constant problem of spyware/adware in Windows that I don't feel exists in Mac OS X and Linux.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#94

Post by shin_lao » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:21 AM UTC

logn wrote: post #86

> and who knows, that might just trigger some kind of revolution in Windows app management Free trials of un-tar? Installing apps that require subscriptions to the cloud? Dev libraries that require enterprise support packages? Good package management on Linux is owed largely to the tireless voices such as Stallman who understand the core issues here. Yes, tying together install scripts and maintaining repositories re…

Don't be so negative. Microsoft announced a partnership with Docker. And there is a lot of free software on Windows as well.

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#95

Post by awor » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:26 AM UTC

the lead dev and architect for OneGet jumped on the reddit thread yesterday and answered a bunch of questions:

http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2khkpo/windows_10_...

using the username : fearthecowboy (his twitter is the same, @fearthecowboy )

This was the top comment: http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2khkpo/windows_10_...

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#96

Post by fetbaffe » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:33 AM UTC

ygra wrote: post #76

mahmud wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like C: \> instpkg32.exe /DefaultSettings:ALL_DEFAULTS C: \> Cryptically named command with verbose arguments, that then goes on to fire a GUI window that requires manual intervention: that's the Microsoft way.

I take it you haven't used PowerShell much ...

I have tried PowerShell a few times but I can't never appreciate it.

Yes, it technical superior than it's counterparts on Linux by piping objects instead of mangling text, but the syntax of PowerShell is just too convoluted.

I have concluded that when doing command line you want to write commands and not program code to execute.

That's why bash is usually straight on and powerful for the 95% commands you do. It's edge cases when you need to do horrible awk piping and general guess work.

PowerShell feels the other way around. Easy for the 5% edge cases, but pain for the 95% common stuff.

Yes, you can create aliases in PowerShell for the most common tasks, but then you don't really learn the powerful mechanics that you need to know.

And it does not help that you need to learn one more scripting language. Microsoft should have gone for JavaScript.

Maybe I'm missing something in the greatness of PowerShell?

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#97

Post by hk__2 » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:34 AM UTC

wmt wrote: post #89

mahmud wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like C: \> instpkg32.exe /DefaultSettings:ALL_DEFAULTS C: \> Cryptically named command with verbose arguments, that then goes on to fire a GUI window that requires manual intervention: that's the Microsoft way.

Good job at not reading the article! Had you read it, you would've learned that the commands work like this: Find-Package Firefox Install-Package Firefox I admit it's not as easy as on e.g. Debian: sudo apt-get remove iceweasel sudo echo deb http://packages.linuxmint.com debian import >>/etc/apt/sources.list sudo gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 3EE67F3D0FF405B2 sudo gpg --export 3EE67F3D0FF405B2 > 3EE67F3D0FF…

This is a deliberately contrived example, the only line that matter is the last one:

    sudo apt-get install firefox

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#98

Post by middleclick » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:40 AM UTC

wmt wrote: post #89

mahmud wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like C: \> instpkg32.exe /DefaultSettings:ALL_DEFAULTS C: \> Cryptically named command with verbose arguments, that then goes on to fire a GUI window that requires manual intervention: that's the Microsoft way.

Good job at not reading the article! Had you read it, you would've learned that the commands work like this: Find-Package Firefox Install-Package Firefox I admit it's not as easy as on e.g. Debian: sudo apt-get remove iceweasel sudo echo deb http://packages.linuxmint.com debian import >>/etc/apt/sources.list sudo gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 3EE67F3D0FF405B2 sudo gpg --export 3EE67F3D0FF405B2 > 3EE67F3D0FF…

What is this... I don't even...

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#99

Post by emsy » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:49 AM UTC

I believe the biggest problem for its success is that most companies don't want to give up the control a dedicated installer gives them (e.g. installing AskBar that comes with Java, as some comments pointed out).

In Linux, dedicated installers are the exception not the rule. I'm curious how the adoption on Windows will be, especially for commercial/non-free software which there is a lot on Windows.

I'm also curious how they will present the packages to the average user. Worst case, the user will have to look in three different places to uninstall software (namely System Control, the package manager, and in directories of software that isn't registered anywhere).

Re: Windows 10 will come with a command-line package manager

#100

Post by junto » Wed, Oct 29, 2014, 7:51 AM UTC

sundvor wrote: post #46

Wow, what's next, ability to shift-ctrl+c & shift-ctrl+v text in the console just by default?

You mean that right click on the window chrome then select 'mark' then select text then right click window again and then choose 'copy' isn't a good user interface?