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Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

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Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#11

Post by Zigurd »

spydum wrote: post #7

I think some of the most interesting findings is how focused the government is on tackling the drug trade. You have to wonder, what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? Would a nation with unrestricted drug trade would descend into anarchy and lawlessness? That productivity would tank, and all our money/growth would shrivel up? Are they wrong? It does seem like this would be more terrifying than a few civilian…

It's not a fear of drugs, it's that the Drug War gets all the aggressive laws and cool toys. It enables self-aggrandizement, ambition, and big budgets.

Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#12

Post by darkarmani »

spydum wrote: post #7

I think some of the most interesting findings is how focused the government is on tackling the drug trade. You have to wonder, what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? Would a nation with unrestricted drug trade would descend into anarchy and lawlessness? That productivity would tank, and all our money/growth would shrivel up? Are they wrong? It does seem like this would be more terrifying than a few civilian…

> You have to wonder, what is the fear of drugs which is driving this?

It's near term rewards: job promotions, accomplishments, seizures.

Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#13

Post by jacquesm »

Zigurd wrote: post #11
spydum wrote: post #7

I think some of the most interesting findings is how focused the government is on tackling the drug trade. You have to wonder, what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? Would a nation with unrestricted drug trade would descend into anarchy and lawlessness? That productivity would tank, and all our money/growth would shrivel up? Are they wrong? It does seem like this would be more terrifying than a few civilian…

It's not a fear of drugs, it's that the Drug War gets all the aggressive laws and cool toys. It enables self-aggrandizement, ambition, and big budgets.

And more importantly it gets you votes from scared people.

Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#14

Post by MichaelGG »

smsm42 wrote: post #9
schoen wrote: post #2

I'm a bit surprised that there aren't purpose limitations in the enabling legislation for the most controversial new government investigative authorities. The Wiretap Act has an explicitly enumerated list of offenses for the investigation of which wiretaps may be authorized: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2516 The default is that a wiretap is not available to investigate an arbitrary crime. (Of course, the…

When some lawmakers openly admit they don't even read the laws they are voting for, it is no wonder things are passing that people afterwards go "wtf these guys were thinking?" It's like writing code without any review, testing and debugging - just type it in and ship to production. But it's about fighting terrorism - so who has the time to do it right? And of course then when people see the exploits and try to fix i…

>It's like writing code without any review, testing and debugging

Well, most PMs don't personally review/test/debug. They assume their people have done it for them, which I'd guess is how senators operate. So in and of itself, not reading the laws isn't intrinsically bad. If they had proper oversight of their teams and knew there was enough QA in the process, they could rely on summaries from their teams.

Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#15

Post by grecy »

spydum wrote: post #7

I think some of the most interesting findings is how focused the government is on tackling the drug trade. You have to wonder, what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? Would a nation with unrestricted drug trade would descend into anarchy and lawlessness? That productivity would tank, and all our money/growth would shrivel up? Are they wrong? It does seem like this would be more terrifying than a few civilian…

> what is the fear of drugs which is driving this?

It's just a good excuse to be perpetually at war, and war makes people very, very rich.

Notice how convenient it is that ISIS showed up and suddenly we need to go to war with them just as Al Qaeda and that war were winding down?

Pretty soon we'll have an entire generation of adults that have never known peacetime, then being at war will just be normal.

Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#16

Post by kristopolous »

grecy wrote: post #15
spydum wrote: post #7

I think some of the most interesting findings is how focused the government is on tackling the drug trade. You have to wonder, what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? Would a nation with unrestricted drug trade would descend into anarchy and lawlessness? That productivity would tank, and all our money/growth would shrivel up? Are they wrong? It does seem like this would be more terrifying than a few civilian…

> what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? It's just a good excuse to be perpetually at war, and war makes people very, very rich. Notice how convenient it is that ISIS showed up and suddenly we need to go to war with them just as Al Qaeda and that war were winding down? Pretty soon we'll have an entire generation of adults that have never known peacetime, then being at war will just be normal.

It's the imperialist narrative.

It used to be god's will and then they were savages, then it was eugenics. Then they were socialists and now they are terrorists.

This train will keep rolling until we as a people decide with our wallet and ballot "your cover story is bullshit. Stop making up things to deny people sovereignty and stop inventing new euphemisms for war."

We as individuals need to be proactive for a meaningful outcome. You can be part of the obstruction and direct the seas of change.

Shifts in the status quo only come as a result of personal convictions and a consistent imposition of values. Nobody ever changed things without actually changing the things they do.

Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#17

Post by dTal »

grecy wrote: post #15
spydum wrote: post #7

I think some of the most interesting findings is how focused the government is on tackling the drug trade. You have to wonder, what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? Would a nation with unrestricted drug trade would descend into anarchy and lawlessness? That productivity would tank, and all our money/growth would shrivel up? Are they wrong? It does seem like this would be more terrifying than a few civilian…

> what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? It's just a good excuse to be perpetually at war, and war makes people very, very rich. Notice how convenient it is that ISIS showed up and suddenly we need to go to war with them just as Al Qaeda and that war were winding down? Pretty soon we'll have an entire generation of adults that have never known peacetime, then being at war will just be normal.

> Notice how convenient it is that ISIS showed up and suddenly we need to go to war with them just as Al Qaeda and that war were winding down?

Take off the tinfoil hat. It's not "convenient", it's what happens when a superpower withdraws from a region creating a huge power vacuum. What are you suggesting, that ISIS is a shadowy plot by Halliburton and the Illuminati?

Quite apart from which, the US does need to sort shit out in Iraq, seeing as the current mess is their fault.

Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#19

Post by grecy »

dTal wrote: post #17
grecy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the fear of drugs which is driving this? It's just a good excuse to be perpetually at war, and war makes people very, very rich. Notice how convenient it is that ISIS showed up and suddenly we need to go to war with them just as Al Qaeda and that war were winding down? Pretty soon we'll have an entire generation of adults that have never known peacetime, then being at war will just be normal.

> Notice how convenient it is that ISIS showed up and suddenly we need to go to war with them just as Al Qaeda and that war were winding down? Take off the tinfoil hat. It's not "convenient", it's what happens when a superpower withdraws from a region creating a huge power vacuum. What are you suggesting, that ISIS is a shadowy plot by Halliburton and the Illuminati? Quite apart from which, the US does need to sort s…

> the US does need to sort shit out in Iraq, seeing as the current mess is their fault.

How many messes in a row can they create / need to sort out?

Re: Government Authority Intended for Terrorism is Used for Other Purposes

#20

Post by dTal »

grecy wrote: post #19
dTal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notice how convenient it is that ISIS showed up and suddenly we need to go to war with them just as Al Qaeda and that war were winding down? Take off the tinfoil hat. It's not "convenient", it's what happens when a superpower withdraws from a region creating a huge power vacuum. What are you suggesting, that ISIS is a shadowy plot by Halliburton and the Illuminati? Quite apart from which, the US does need to sort s…

> the US does need to sort shit out in Iraq, seeing as the current mess is their fault. How many messes in a row can they create / need to sort out?

I don't think "standard issue dictator likes posturing" and "roving bands of religious crazies armed with Western equipment murdering women and children for sport" are quite the same level of mess.
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