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iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

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Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#101

Post by dfc »

flatdeviant wrote: post #96
parasubvert wrote: post #46

Given this feature has been around for well over a year with eg. TextEdit, I'm amazed at the reaction. This is exactly the behavior I want and expect from Apple as a user, it would surprise me if they DIDN'T do this.

> I'm amazed at the reaction And I'm baffled by yours, and others' in the thread. With the PRISM/Snowden revelations, Apple still refusing to encrypt their data center links, not using perfect forward secrecy, etc, the cloud simply doesn't seem like a good default. They could make this opt-in, as it's supposedly linked to Continuity, but it's very clearly unintuitive, as evidenced by others in this thread ( https://n…

I love it when people get all "incendiary" about a privacy issue in the post-Snowden world. I really do not understand what your privacy world view was in 2009. Did you think governments did not have intelligence agencies? Did you think every government employee was an angel? Did you think F500 companies regarded personal privacy sacrosanct? ?

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#102

Post by justcommenting »

hnarn wrote: post #14
whizzkid wrote: post #4

Like Adobe streaming their Photoshop software from their servers, Like Google is trying to push Chrome OS so that you DO NOT need hard drives. Big boys in market, sooner or later, will move all software and hardware power to their side leaving you with a screen, mouse and keyboard to interact with everything. As soon as companies do not have control over whatever you are doing, they are losing benefit on it. Get read…

As long as there are computer parts and open source software, you can still opt out if you want to.

don't forget the importance of open hardware, e.g. bunnie's novena project

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#103

Post by nobbyclark »

api wrote: post #79
nobbyclark wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly this type of response seems to be common amongst those that do get it. "Whatever. Most people don't care anyway." If you look at the reaction of those 99% to Apple planting a U2 album on their phone, you see an angry response when people are made aware...

If only users actually changed their buying behavior on the basis of security or privacy. Until that happens "users don't care about security or privacy" will continue to be the default since economically speaking it is absolutely true. What users care about as revealed by buying behavior is: user experience, user experience, user experience, user experience, cost, user experience, and user experience.

Has there been a model of consumer behavior related to personal computing where security played a major part? Yes - anti-virus software on Windows.

That's not an entirely healthy example but it does show it is possible to make consumers take topics like security and privacy seriously.

The issue right now is there aren't enough voices telling them how serious these topics are.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#104

Post by 13 »

firloop wrote: post #93
13 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's at odds with the name, but Creative Cloud runs independent of Adobe. "Cloud" refers to a harsher anti piracy check under the guise of a Dropbox like file storage that nobody uses.

I think the parent level poster was referring to the cloud-streaming capabilities Adobe is rolling out for Photoshop and presumably other programs, starting on the Chromebook. http://chrome.blogspot.com/2014/09/adobe-joins-chromebook-pa...

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Prior to this people were confused about what Creative Cloud meant, so I assumed the parent was a continuation of that.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#105

Post by heavenlyhash »

quesera wrote: post #97
sneak wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more interested in why the default behavior of internet users is so often to blame the victim. Does it shift the danger of the world squarely onto those who couldn't ever possibly be you, as your internal narrative has you as perfectly informed at all times? I'm a security-conscious engineer that's been using Apple hardware and software for two decades. Today, my computer took a bunch of private text and uploaded…

I think if you had presented exactly the same data as the results of dispassionate research, you would have gotten a somewhat tepid, but appreciative response. Because you presented it as a personal violation and unconscionable shock, many people are reacting with incredulity. I don't think you did anything wrong, tactically , and I think this is an important discovery. I do think you need to rethink your strategy ar…

And you have the privilege of speaking of "the course of user experience" as if it's an undeniable course (or a user-driven movement, for that matter; which I daresay is not easily substantiated when we're on a topic of a decision of Apple engineering rolled out without warning) ... as a result of your dispassionate research?

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#106

Post by amirmc »

quesera wrote: post #90
amirmc wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "There are two kinds of users in this scenario. Those who don't care (99%) and those who do." ... "The author is rightly sore that his bits got pushed to Apple due to his oversight " (emphasis mine) This attitude is completely unhelpful. It throws those who are otherwise ignorant under the bus simply because they don't (can't?) understand how modern tech works. Is that really fair? Must we really divide the world u…

Well, it's like this. When I know that I value a product or service for different reasons than the majority of other customers, I recognize that the product might change in a way that eliminates or reverses the value I derive. When I think about the privacy of my personal information, I know that I would be greatly irritated to learn that a single shred of "my stuff" went anywhere outside of my control. I care. I car…

> "... they have decided that the benefits are greater than the risks ..."

My point is that they're not even aware of how things work and therefore are not at all in a position to comprehend what the risks really are, let alone make sensible decisions.

The flaw in your reasoning is linking behaviour to knowledge. Just because people are behaving in a certain way doesn't mean that they are fully aware of the consequences of those actions. When it's only a small part of your life, it has little impact but when you suddenly realise a large chunk of your life depends on those choices it can be a bit of a shock (consider all the celebrities who had private images leaked recently).

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#107

Post by Someone »

flatdeviant wrote: post #99
Someone wrote: post #95

"those in-progress (not yet explicitly “saved”) documents live in iCloud Drive" So, what is it? On the drive or outside of it? Does it matter? I googled a bit, but couldn't determine whether Apple can decrypt that data. It is encrypted both in transit and in the cloud, but do they hold the keys? I know I have to trust them to do what they say they do, anyways, but if they do not have the keys, they cannot change thei…

> I know I have to trust them to do what they say they do, anyways, but if they do not have the keys, they cannot change their mind (say in response to a visit from the NSA) Apple absolutely holds the keys to everything stored on iCloud. See their iOS security whitepaper [1], in the iCloud section: > iCloud > iCloud stores music, photos, apps, calendars, documents, and more, and automatically pushes them to all of a…

Thanks. I scanned that, but mixed up the discussion of iCloud and iCloud KeyChain, of which Apple claims:

"iCloud Keychain allows users to securely sync their passwords between iOS devices and Mac computers without exposing that information to Apple."

So, I guess somebody should write a 'notepad' for iOS and Mac OS X that stores its data as secure notes in the KeyChain (assuming that secure notes get synced, too)

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#108

Post by api »

nobbyclark wrote: post #103
api wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only users actually changed their buying behavior on the basis of security or privacy. Until that happens "users don't care about security or privacy" will continue to be the default since economically speaking it is absolutely true. What users care about as revealed by buying behavior is: user experience, user experience, user experience, user experience, cost, user experience, and user experience.

Has there been a model of consumer behavior related to personal computing where security played a major part? Yes - anti-virus software on Windows. That's not an entirely healthy example but it does show it is possible to make consumers take topics like security and privacy seriously. The issue right now is there aren't enough voices telling them how serious these topics are.

The celebrity nude hack is a good case in point. "The cloud means some knucklehead from 4chan might steal all your data because they don't like your blog posts" has a certain ring to it.

It also might be helpful to drop "privacy." It's security. These are vulnerabilities. Apple could have encrypted this stuff with keys the customer controls, but that takes more engineering to make it friendly and usable. They won't until people care.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#109

Post by quesera »

amirmc wrote: post #106
quesera wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's like this. When I know that I value a product or service for different reasons than the majority of other customers, I recognize that the product might change in a way that eliminates or reverses the value I derive. When I think about the privacy of my personal information, I know that I would be greatly irritated to learn that a single shred of "my stuff" went anywhere outside of my control. I care. I car…

> "... they have decided that the benefits are greater than the risks ..." My point is that they're not even aware of how things work and therefore are not at all in a position to comprehend what the risks really are, let alone make sensible decisions. The flaw in your reasoning is linking behaviour to knowledge. Just because people are behaving in a certain way doesn't mean that they are fully aware of the consequen…

The low-information customer you're describing is a totally different animal than the person we're discussing here. I agree with you as far as it goes, but OP is a security-conscious developer.

Jennifer Lawrence has a different problem. Apple can't really help her either.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#110

Post by quesera »

heavenlyhash wrote: post #105
quesera wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you had presented exactly the same data as the results of dispassionate research, you would have gotten a somewhat tepid, but appreciative response. Because you presented it as a personal violation and unconscionable shock, many people are reacting with incredulity. I don't think you did anything wrong, tactically , and I think this is an important discovery. I do think you need to rethink your strategy ar…

And you have the privilege of speaking of "the course of user experience" as if it's an undeniable course (or a user-driven movement, for that matter; which I daresay is not easily substantiated when we're on a topic of a decision of Apple engineering rolled out without warning) ... as a result of your dispassionate research?

We're talking about different things. Yes, I can say without hesitation that people want ("the course of user experience") document sync. Refutations welcome.

You might be trying to argue that people also want privacy or security in their document sync, but that has nothing to do with the matter at hand. iCloud is at least as secure as any other consumer sync service.

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