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iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

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Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#81

Post by toomuchtodo »

patio11 wrote: post #31
kps wrote: post #18

Last I looked, iCloud was not HIPAA¹-compliant. Health-care workers who previously could have iCloud enabled, as long as they did not use it for HIPAA-covered documents, may be in for a big and expensive surprise. ¹ http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/

Although non-compliant activity with regards to e.g. spreadsheets containing patient data is extraordinarily widespread [+], you're correct, putting a spreadsheet with PHI on iCloud (whether you intended to or not) is a reportable breach. (Not a lawyer, but I have to care about this, for professional reasons.) [+] Say, emailing in the clear about PHI. This is extraordinarily common even among people who theoretically…

Are organizations that are caught emailing PHI in the clear not punished for this? Or are the damages insufficient to change the behavior?

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#82

Post by [deleted] »

shurcooL wrote: post #77
sneak wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not angry, but it does violate the principle of least surprise and the document model that's been in use for text editors forever . I opted in to iCloud Drive to synchronize files - files I chose to store in iCloud. I did not opt in to synchronize my unsaved files in apps not currently supported by Continuity, nor was there any warning or indication that that would occur. How would you feel if the OS, without war…

> my unsaved files How would you feel if your unsaved files suddenly disappear? Would you blame apple for deleting files you explicitly chose to not save? You were relying on a feature in an unusual and unintended way. Sooner or later, that may stop working. The "unsaved files" being not synced to iCloud was never something that was meant to be guaranteed, it was just how it was. What I'm suggesting is that by opting…

[deleted]

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#83

Post by sneak »

abalone wrote: post #78
sneak wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continuity is only designed to work within a few meter range for handoff (and indeed requires bluetooth), which could easily be achieved over local bluetooth-bootstrapped p2p wifi. Red herring.

Continuity data sync happens via iCloud. From the developer docs: "Handoff passes only enough information between the devices to describe the activity itself, while larger-scale data synchronization is handled through iCloud." Can't say for sure whether a p2p wifi connection would really be an good substitute but I'm skeptical and I bet Apple's thought it through. I know AirDrop works that way but it seems to take a…

Yes, I am aware that that is how they chose to implement it.

It was not necessary to do it that way and the exact same user experience could be achieved without the data leaving the room. Continuity only needs to work within bluetooth (and therefore wifi) range.

If Continuity didn't require bluetooth (e.g. for picking up a document on your mac that was started on your phone left in the car in the parking garage) then this design decision could be defended, at least a little bit - but it doesn't work that way.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#84

Post by sneak »

sneak wrote: post #44

It's worse: It would appear that iCloud is synchronizing all of the email addresses of people you correspond with, even for non-iCloud accounts, to their recent addresses service. This means that names and email addresss that are not in iCloud contacts, not synchronized to your device, and only available in an IMAP-accessed inbox are now being sent to Apple, silently.

This fact — that your phone is silently syncing third-party email account inbox metadata (sender address lists) to a major US cloud provider — is being downvoted.

Welcome to HN, where blaming the user isn't just our profession, it's our hobby!

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#85

Post by sneak »

SCAQTony wrote: post #49

This may sound naive but it is just bizarre that if you own a computer it is just not really "YOUR" computer anymore. It's like you are "leasing it" but you pay the hardware company with your data.

Does that mean I get the four grand for this maxxed out 15" rMBP back?

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#86

Post by flatdeviant »

MikeyJck wrote: post #63
X-Istence wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mavericks had the same behaviour as Yosemite iirc, except it was less obvious.

in Mavericks default save location was iCloud for docs but it didn't silently upload stuff afaik

It actually did upload stuff silently. Here's what you can do to reproduce:

Have TextEdit enabled in the iCloud System Preferences panel. Open TextEdit, create a new document, type stuff in it. Now press cmd + O to display the iCloud document picker, and you'll see your new document got uploaded to iCloud, without you ever hitting Save or explicitly agreeing to save it on iCloud.

The only way on Mavericks to have 100% local data was to:

a) disable Documents in the Cloud for all apps or a specific app, or:

b) save documents to the local drive immediately after creating them, before typing anything.

I'm surprised this isn't more commonly known, and that everyone seemed totally fine with it. Doesn't seem like intuitive or expected behavior for an average user IMO.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#87

Post by sneak »

aisenik wrote: post #55

How many hyperbolic, bad faith posts about Yosemite are going to be made and voted to the top at HN? (This is the third I've seen this week, and they all make extremely negative insinuations based on incorrect assumptions and the shallowest possible examination of the functionality being excoriated.) It appears that the only new functionality in this case is increased visibility via iCloud Drive. Presumably these doc…

It's both intentional, and nefarious - separately.

"Intentionally nefarious" implies bad faith - I think it's just wickedly reckless and violates the huge amount of trust that end users place in their OS vendor.

The synchronization of the email recents list across iCloud via recentsd is the big problem. If I add a third-party email account that I access via IMAP, it is not the job of my phone or workstation to send the metadata (sender list) to my OS vendor's servers, even if it does enable the feature of easy address autocomplete on my other devices.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#88

Post by tl »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #81
patio11 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although non-compliant activity with regards to e.g. spreadsheets containing patient data is extraordinarily widespread [+], you're correct, putting a spreadsheet with PHI on iCloud (whether you intended to or not) is a reportable breach. (Not a lawyer, but I have to care about this, for professional reasons.) [+] Say, emailing in the clear about PHI. This is extraordinarily common even among people who theoretically…

Are organizations that are caught emailing PHI in the clear not punished for this? Or are the damages insufficient to change the behavior?

My experiences on this suggest that any company that both produces something classifiable as PHI and large enough to have dedicated IT / Legal staff have fairly draconian policies that include "every attachment that is mailed to a mail server that is not ours is stripped".

When individuals work around these policies, there tends to be some level of legal shielding for the larger business entity when it is investigated.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#89

Post by patio11 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #81
patio11 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although non-compliant activity with regards to e.g. spreadsheets containing patient data is extraordinarily widespread [+], you're correct, putting a spreadsheet with PHI on iCloud (whether you intended to or not) is a reportable breach. (Not a lawyer, but I have to care about this, for professional reasons.) [+] Say, emailing in the clear about PHI. This is extraordinarily common even among people who theoretically…

Are organizations that are caught emailing PHI in the clear not punished for this? Or are the damages insufficient to change the behavior?

Yes.

Odds of an enforcement action are minimal (940 complaints for Security Rule violations in 5 years divided by one sixth the economy), given that enforcement is complaint-driven and CSV files rarely complain. If you're big enough you budget for fines like retail budgets for employee theft -- sure, don't seek it out, but you won't be heartbroken when it happens.

Re: iCloud Uploads Local Data Outside of iCloud Drive

#90

Post by quesera »

amirmc wrote: post #48
quesera wrote: post #23

Interesting, but: There are two kinds of users in this scenario. Those who don't care (99%) and those who do. If you count yourself among the latter group, as I do, then it's always solid advice to choose actions which clarify your intentions. In this case: - don't use iCloud - don't use iCloud sync for the app you use for private data - do explicitly choose to save the file locally - don't enable new features like C…

> "There are two kinds of users in this scenario. Those who don't care (99%) and those who do." ... "The author is rightly sore that his bits got pushed to Apple due to his oversight " (emphasis mine) This attitude is completely unhelpful. It throws those who are otherwise ignorant under the bus simply because they don't (can't?) understand how modern tech works. Is that really fair? Must we really divide the world u…

Well, it's like this.

When I know that I value a product or service for different reasons than the majority of other customers, I recognize that the product might change in a way that eliminates or reverses the value I derive.

When I think about the privacy of my personal information, I know that I would be greatly irritated to learn that a single shred of "my stuff" went anywhere outside of my control.

I care. I care a lot. The cloud is not made for me. Social technology is not made for me. The extent that social and cloud creeps into my operating system of choice is a clearly tense relationship that I have to think about and plan defensively around.

I don't think everyone should have to do that -- but they don't. They want universal sync and autotweeting, and I am not one to begrudge them.

When I say "most people don't care", I mean that they have decided that the benefits are greater than the risks, and on the whole would rather trust Apple than Google or some syncerrific.io sort of operation. Maybe they care that their friends, neighbors, and coworkers can't read MyFavoriteHentai.docx, but they do not care much about strangers.

So they get the product that they want. And I (and some of the rest of us, but really quite few) do not. And this is the way it should be.

So I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. I wish there was a way to make the product that people want without making it harder for me (and the OP) to get what I want out of it, but it's impossible to serve all cases. That becomes my problem, and I bear it willingly.

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