There is plenty of C code to look and learn: Linux, PostgreSQL, lua & luajit, sqlite, redis, cairo, nanomsg, libuv, etc. etc
On becoming an expert C programmer
11–20 of 80 posts
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#12There's nothing magic about learning C versus any other language.
- Read an authoritative source (K&R is good; there are better ones)
- Read a bunch of good code (I mostly read tools and kernel sources)
- Write crappy code and get better
Generally I want to write 10K lines of code in a new language before I probably don't suck at it. Varies on the language and paradigm, going to C++ from C took like five years (figuring out OOP, and painful lessons on what to avoid in C++), and apparently I'm never going to understand Haskell.
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#13Not mentionned, about being an expert C programmer, is knowing the pitfalls of C, (cf. undefined behaviors), and reading and knowing the ANSI C standard. Of course, just knowing the language in and out is not enough, you also have to be a good programmer in general (algorithms, "design patterns", software architecture, software engineering, etc). But writing C code without undefined behavior, and avoiding its numerou…
"Not mentionned, about being an expert C programmer, is knowing the pitfalls of C, (cf. undefined behaviors)"
I am an expert in C, I had been decades writing on it and other languages, and managing teams of coders. We created a company that used it a lot.
I can't understand what undefined behaviors C has, because it is the most simple and defined language I do know of. I have lots of experience writing assembler,fortran, Lisp, c++, python, objective C and also use C#, java, javascript and other web languages and functional languages from time to time.
c++, java could be extremely undefined because the behavior depends on conventions, committees and implementations. E.g we had to change some code because of different compilers interpretation of the standars.
But c? c is basically portable assembler. If you understand how computers work it is extremely reliable bar none. We have ported years of work of dozen programmers in one day. With c++ and "write once, run everywhere marketing" java we spent months.
It was also terribly frustrating for the team. Fontforge author had a similar experience writing c++ compilers and that experience was so traumatic the interface of Fontforge is so ugly as he does not want to use c++ with a ten foot pole.
We try to avoid pitfalls more in high level languages because the programmer has the ability to write code without understanding what is really happening in the processor, or even in the program. Recipe programmers population is growing a lot this days.
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#14There's nothing magic about learning C versus any other language. - Read an authoritative source (K&R is good; there are better ones) - Read a bunch of good code (I mostly read tools and kernel sources) - Write crappy code and get better Generally I want to write 10K lines of code in a new language before I probably don't suck at it. Varies on the language and paradigm, going to C++ from C took like five years (figur…
> and apparently I'm never going to understand Haskell
I found this introduction to the concepts of functional programming (functional composition) to be useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhuHCtR3xq8
Otherwise, it's just a different way of thinking about problems. Instead of building things structurally as an object of objects, and then creating functions that relate, transform, or describe the relationships between the object structures (like taking a pixel object, altering it's x coordinate, and returning the new pixel object with only the x coordinate altered), one has functions that can be composed with other functions to produce more complex object structures. A single base unit with a sequence of functional compositions can describe a very fancy, complex unit, with many fancy, complex characteristics.
>> Monads have also been explained with a physical metaphor as assembly lines, where a conveyor belt transports data between functional units that transform it one step at a time.[2] They can also be seen as a functional design pattern to build generic types.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_%28functional_programming...
Otherwise, it's syntax and semantics, which I generally find annoying, but there's always google and books.
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#15There's nothing magic about learning C versus any other language. - Read an authoritative source (K&R is good; there are better ones) - Read a bunch of good code (I mostly read tools and kernel sources) - Write crappy code and get better Generally I want to write 10K lines of code in a new language before I probably don't suck at it. Varies on the language and paradigm, going to C++ from C took like five years (figur…
I really think C is much easier to get good at than other languages. There is no mystery with what's going on in the computer when you learn C, the builtin functions, how big something is, how things work, etc.
When you learn higher level languages there is significant mystery in everything. It means you can write a lot of code having no idea what's going on under the hood, which is good. That's the point of a higher level language, but it is certainly something you SHOULD know in order to call yourself an expert. These mysteries are sometimes what causes Good programmers to get hung up on odd edge cases .
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#16Whenever I've looked at an open source C programs, they go well beyond what I've learned in K&R. Learning C these days means mastering Make, autotools, macros, POSIX and Glib. Knowing these is the difference between your contrived linked-list example and creating software that can actually be deployed and is useful.
How is knowing useful libraries for C any different to knowing useful library for other languages? Perl (about the only other language I have any experience with) seems to be dependant on modules which you struggle to compile through cpan.
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#17Not mentionned, about being an expert C programmer, is knowing the pitfalls of C, (cf. undefined behaviors), and reading and knowing the ANSI C standard. Of course, just knowing the language in and out is not enough, you also have to be a good programmer in general (algorithms, "design patterns", software architecture, software engineering, etc). But writing C code without undefined behavior, and avoiding its numerou…
It appears people are still writing C without appreciating the fact that "undefined behavior" means more than "unpredictable," or "might crash." A lot more: http://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer-should-... .
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#18C is a cakewalk compared to C++ but a lot harder to do right, even when experienced, because of its more low level constructs
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#19Not mentionned, about being an expert C programmer, is knowing the pitfalls of C, (cf. undefined behaviors), and reading and knowing the ANSI C standard. Of course, just knowing the language in and out is not enough, you also have to be a good programmer in general (algorithms, "design patterns", software architecture, software engineering, etc). But writing C code without undefined behavior, and avoiding its numerou…
"Not mentionned, about being an expert C programmer, is knowing the pitfalls of C, (cf. undefined behaviors)" I am an expert in C, I had been decades writing on it and other languages, and managing teams of coders. We created a company that used it a lot. I can't understand what undefined behaviors C has, because it is the most simple and defined language I do know of. I have lots of experience writing assembler,fort…
>If you understand how computers work it is extremely reliable bar none.
On my processor, INT64_MAX + 1 will be INT64_MIN, a negative value. But the compiler is free to turn
for (int64_t i = 1; i > 0; i++) {
f(i);
}
Re: On becoming an expert C programmer
#20Not mentionned, about being an expert C programmer, is knowing the pitfalls of C, (cf. undefined behaviors), and reading and knowing the ANSI C standard. Of course, just knowing the language in and out is not enough, you also have to be a good programmer in general (algorithms, "design patterns", software architecture, software engineering, etc). But writing C code without undefined behavior, and avoiding its numerou…
"Not mentionned, about being an expert C programmer, is knowing the pitfalls of C, (cf. undefined behaviors)" I am an expert in C, I had been decades writing on it and other languages, and managing teams of coders. We created a company that used it a lot. I can't understand what undefined behaviors C has, because it is the most simple and defined language I do know of. I have lots of experience writing assembler,fort…
Here is a fun site to play with some of the more nuanced corners in C: