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Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

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Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#61
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the fun part, if I start a company and get my friend to invest $1 for 0.0000001% of my company. What's my company's "valuation"? "Valuation" is such a terrible term, all it really means is "the ROI expected by the investors". We try to make it very complicated with analysis of term sheets and growth rates and all that, but it's just a gamble on the part of the investor. The only difference between gambling and…

> Here's the fun part, if I start a company and get my friend to invest $1 for 0.0000001% of my company. What's my company's "valuation"? This is a great point, but valuation is still a meaningful term, it refers to how much someone thinks the company is worth. Your friend bet $1 that your company is worth more than $10,000,000. We tend to trust people's opinions when they put their money where their mouth is so we p…

True, but the problem is that "valuation" and front page articles about it sends a specific signal, "this company is worth this much", and like you said, we're supposed to trust people who put the money into the investment.

The problem is that no investor is an oracle, and no matter the size of their investment, or what statements they make, can actually make a company have some value until it's sold.

At best you can gauge a company's "value" (not valuation) by their revenue and profit, this is an instantaneous assessment backed by hard figures. And you can make a projection, which is a best guess, of the future value of the company based on period over period growth and some notion on how big the market is. But we also don't know what kind of fanciful numbers were being used.

Suppose my friend starts a company making internet connected toasters. Well everybody likes toast, therefore size of market = humans on earth. No! You'd be surprised at how unscientifically figures for market size are determined.

Here's one I've actually heard for a piece of high-end technical software targeting the Federal government: The U.S. Federal Government employs about 5 million people, if we sell a copy of our software to each employee at $3k/license our market is worth $15 million dollars! And then they're very surprised when the market does not turn out to be that big, and there's a mad last minute scramble to target local government because "there's way more local government than there are federal government".

Remember the Segway? They actually hired a professional consulting firm to gauge market size. You know what was predicted? 31 million units inside of 10 years and 50,000 in the first year. Money exchanged hands for this prediction. Valuations were made based on this work. This was supposed to be a company the size of Apple. How many have actually been sold? Nobody knows, but it appears to be well under 50,000, worldwide.

But people in suits said this stuff! With nice hair and fancy diplomas on their walls! If I can't trust them who can I trust?

I'm not saying figuring out market size is easy, it's hard. So hard that it's wrong far more often than it's right (something like 90% of businesses fail). "Valuation", of which market size should be a critical component, is misleading and not particularly meaningful. And the problem is that we take unmeaningful words like that and turn them into major news.

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#62
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A website like this lives and dies on their inventory more then their userbase. AirBnB doesn't have a listing fee, which differentiated them from traditional vacation rental places like VRBO. How is a competitor going to get a competitive inventory?

http://www.vrbo.com/info/list-your-property ? I think their pricing is similar to ABB Also Homeway has a large inventory, I believe, but a lower market cap: 3B vs 10B.

Interesting, VRBO definitely changed their pricing model recently. It used to only be the $350 upfront type, so it only made sense for actual vacation homes. I know a lot of people were dual listing their VRBO places on Airbnb (because Airbnb is free), and I bet VRBO was not getting the renewal numbers they wanted.

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Furthermore, as much as there are local law issues in places like NYC against them, I don't anticipate those lasting long or having a large effect on their revenues." If this is true, it will also apply to their competitors, right? Either the prices of Marriott will fall if/when they stop charging some crazy-expensive taxes on their guests, or AirBnb will have to start paying/charging for those taxes. One way or ano…

You are partially right, but the main value of AirBnB is that opens up a larger supply of rooms. Hotel prices often fluctuate wildly -- a room may cost $59 one week and then a few weeks later cost $299 because a trade show is in town, etc. Cities like New York have an insufficient supply of hotel rooms to meet demand. There are often no hotel rooms in NYC available for last-minute booking for under $400/night. With A…

I noticed lately that mid-range hotels (Hamptons and Holiday Inns) generally turn out to be quite competitive price-wise. Those guys live by dynamic pricing, so a new entrant lowers the prices, but not completely disrupts the industry.

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#64
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are partially right, but the main value of AirBnB is that opens up a larger supply of rooms. Hotel prices often fluctuate wildly -- a room may cost $59 one week and then a few weeks later cost $299 because a trade show is in town, etc. Cities like New York have an insufficient supply of hotel rooms to meet demand. There are often no hotel rooms in NYC available for last-minute booking for under $400/night. With A…

Airbnb seems like a terrible choice for last-minute booking because it's based on the notion of hosts responding via email in their spare time. When you book a room in a hotel you have reserved a room and don't need to do anything more except show up but when you book a room via airbnd you have merely made an inquiry and won't know whether you've reserved a room until you possibly get an email back after some non-det…

They do have instant booking https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/187

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#65
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critical mass.

What would stop someone from putting their property up on multiple websites?

It's a rational decision for most sellers. There's a bunch of properties listed on AirBnB, HomeAway and VRBO (latter two being owned by the same company). For buyers I'd guess existence of previous transactions and reviews is a quality signal, as opposed to a site where you can get scammed by a dishonest seller.

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#66
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot see anything that costs $13 billion in that company. I am probably bad at pricing.

Same here. Aside from taking care of transactions, which is easy to imitate, I don't see what sets Airbnb apart from other vacation rental websites. They are not fundamentally different. Yes, they have a large userbase, but that's easily threatenable considering their fees and lack of distinction. I must be missing something.

> I don't see what sets Airbnb apart from other vacation rental websites

I think their innovation was allowing shared housing and generally any quirky property. HomeAway and VRBO focused their efforts on professionally managed second homes and vacation properties.

By now the network effect has kicked in, and any newcomer would have to convince buyers they're relatively reliable and scam-free.

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#67
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbnb seems like a terrible choice for last-minute booking because it's based on the notion of hosts responding via email in their spare time. When you book a room in a hotel you have reserved a room and don't need to do anything more except show up but when you book a room via airbnd you have merely made an inquiry and won't know whether you've reserved a room until you possibly get an email back after some non-det…

They do have instant booking https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/187

Empirically, the rooms that offer last minute instant booking tend to cost about the same as a hotel.

Although I didn't realize you could use "has instant booking" as a search parameter - thanks! Now if only I could get hipmunk to honor that restriction too...

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#68
post #15
post #7

I wonder how common it is for investors to allow a partial cashout of employee stockholders like this? And how are they going to distribute the cash? pro-rata?

It happened with Facebook and other companies. I can't find the specific article about this topic (I think from Fred Wilson). The logic is that there is an inconsistency in growing a company to the billion scale while you are just having a salary. It gives a financial safety to the people involved in the key decisions.

Mark Suster wrote a pretty good post on the subject of founder liquidity that Fred Wilson then linked to;

http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2009/09/02/should-founder...

Maybe the one you had in mind.

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#69
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would stop someone from putting their property up on multiple websites?

It's a rational decision for most sellers. There's a bunch of properties listed on AirBnB, HomeAway and VRBO (latter two being owned by the same company). For buyers I'd guess existence of previous transactions and reviews is a quality signal, as opposed to a site where you can get scammed by a dishonest seller.

There's also the niche differential. VRBO & Homeaway tend to be more for vacation rental properties (not all, but that's the trend).

Re: Airbnb valued at $13B ahead of staff stock sale

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it makes existing infrastructure more affordable. But for new infrastructure, any income generated is priced into the value, making the "profit" from renting it out less substantial.

You are ignoring the concept of competition. Housing is not the most competitive market due to restrictions both natural (limited space) and artificial (zoning), but there is still competition.

See that's my point... there is only so much land in the middle of NYC that is zoned right for condos, so the competition really won't increase.

Also, real estate in general is a very capital intensive industry, which takes out 99% of competition anyways. How many people are there that can raise $200 million to build a project. Not many.

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