Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#171

Post by Kurtz79 » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:15 PM UTC

csbrooks wrote: post #156

Kurtz79 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working as a SW Engineer in Spain. None of my acquaintances in the sector (with relevant experience) have any problems in finding a job. Even people that got laid off were able to secure a new position in a relatively short time. My guess that the problem is more related to prejudices about his age, as the op says. I have a co-worker that is 50+ years old and entered the company a couple of years ago. He is a bri…

Fight with HR to hire him: Is age discrimination not illegal in Spain?

It is subtler than that, I think.

It´s not really age discrimination as much as a particular (stupid) view of what carrer development should be for a technical guy, in some places.

That is to say, it is expected that in your late carrer you moved into a management position of some sort, and not stayed "simply" a developer.

Again, stupid and counterproductive.

BTW by "fight" I mean metaphorically, of course.

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#172

Post by firichapo » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:18 PM UTC

Maybe he can edit his resume/CV and remove the date from items that would hint toward his age. This way the companies might give him the chance to show his experience in Django during an interview.

How about remote work within the European Union? I am in the US so I am not familiar with how common that is in Europe.

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#173

Post by hardwaresofton » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:20 PM UTC

luisivan wrote: post #55

hardwaresofton wrote: post #48

Does he have an up-to-date portfolio on what he's been working on? how are his side projects? I think that's one of the most effective ways to convince someone that you haven't been resting on your laurels/are still innovating. Also, he could take the chance (assuming you guys are not 3 steps from being on the curb) to try and bootstrap a small startup -- 56 years is a ton of experience, he has to know some pain poin…

That's an interesting point. He's been working for some months on his own project, that is an app for managing SMEs' salesforce. He has some experience on the enterprise so he really understands the problem. The thing is that he is actually 3 steps from being on the curb (I live alone and am economically independent)

wow, sorry to hear that... that makes things way more difficult.

In that case, I would suggest that he applies to some of the bigger companies (like... real big), like HP/Dell, and market himself as a "tech-lead" -- it's got more hope of being near code than a project manager, and they value experience (and it's relatively easy to get into big companies)... Though I don't know which big companies are in spain (AFAIK that's where you are?)

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#174

Post by icecreampain » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:23 PM UTC

zerr wrote: post #117

mqsiuser wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! - You likely won't, because of Spolsky [1] And... your parent commenter is right: "When it comes to hiring, I'll take a Github commit log over a resume any day.", jeresig [2] [1] The development abstraction layer ( http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/DevelopmentAbstractio... ) [2] John Resig on Twitter ( https://twitter.com/jeresig/status/33968704983138304 )

At least you should try. Maybe start small (and stay small..), there is always some path to escape from cubicle nation.. ;) As for "github is your CV" hype: http://www.ashedryden.com/blog/the-ethics-of-unpaid-labor-an... https://blog.jcoglan.com/2013/11/15/why-github-is-not-your-c...

Your first link says that it's mostly overpriviliges white men with a lot of spare time that have Github accounts or commit to OSS in their spare time.

The bottom of the article states: "Your donation helps me continue to write, speak at conferences on these subjects, and create more projects which further the cause of diversity in tech."

The article author is a biased, professional SJW. Of course nobody else other than fat, white, Christian, worthless male scum have time for any OSS projects in their free time: THEY'RE PRIVILIGED. And not only that, github has a checkbox when registering that asks you for your gender. If you tick "female" then you're not allowed to register and are therefore physically incapable of committing anything.

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#175

Post by tdj » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:36 PM UTC

shams93 wrote: post #76

e12e wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really less effective ? I would assume that experience would be a big help in making a developer more effective? Or are you saying you may be as effective, but not as able to work the crazy hours that still seem to be far too common in the industry?

Yeah I get a lot more done in a shorter amount of time at 42 than 19, but the 20 hour days are really punishing, although offset by being able to work some of it remote, but for companies that chart success by sheer number of hours and face time clocked rather than projects completed these are in general a poor match for any effective developer.

I'm 29, and I have already started feeling this. Just a few years ago, I could do 12-14h coding days sustainably, but now, anything above 11h sustained for weeks really shows in my output quality. Luckily, my overall productivity is still rising due to learning and experience, despite the degrading mental capabilities. I don't know what me at 35 will look like. I now see where the ageism comes from.

I find it incredibly sad that I even need to think about this. I regret that I even participated in this circus in the first place. I now only work for companies with don't have the ass-in-seats-for-80h policy. It's actually interesting that in startups where this works, people self-select and end up there. It's amazing how much more you can achieve if you can afford to take a step back, and not worry how you can run in circles even farther and faster.

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#176

Post by mqsiuser » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:37 PM UTC

zerr wrote: post #142

mqsiuser wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On "the ethics of unpaid labor": YOU haven't been to a good university ? And on "Why github is not your CV": Your animated gif is not advancing the discussion AND nobody said that github=yourCV. You can bend reality (to your favour) but just not too much!

> Your animated gif is not advancing the discussion Hmm, sorry, when I opened it used to be an article actually (and it is not mine). Here is the cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yFBroqO... >You can bend reality (to your favour) but just not too much! This might be reality in some hipster web startup scene. I'm glad I'm not in that domain.

The URL is valid (copy and paste or type it in).

BUT: If you go there from HN he dispays just the gif

Wow, ... he seems to protect his article from the HN-crowd :-D

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#177

Post by BozeWolf » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:38 PM UTC

easytiger wrote: post #167

Kurtz79 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working as a SW Engineer in Spain. None of my acquaintances in the sector (with relevant experience) have any problems in finding a job. Even people that got laid off were able to secure a new position in a relatively short time. My guess that the problem is more related to prejudices about his age, as the op says. I have a co-worker that is 50+ years old and entered the company a couple of years ago. He is a bri…

Your HR people could be exposing your company to huge legal risks. They should be treated as any other employee who tries to take illegal actions inside the company. It is illegal under EU law to discriminate against age in an employment context. And well played for the EU for taking this stand. http://ec.europa.eu/justice/discrimination/files/age_and_emp...

Legal risks... it is Spain.

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#178

Post by auganov » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:39 PM UTC

Start a startup with dad.

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#179

Post by juanre » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #157

juanre wrote: post #96

Contact me if you want me to show his CV around HP's lab in Barcelona. Hope it works out well for him!

Can I contact you? Only just turned 40, but I am based in Barcelona and looking for a new job.

Of course!

Re: Ask HN: My 56-year-old father is a developer having a tough time finding a job

#180

Post by haddr » Fri, Oct 24, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

Spanish market is really tough these days, but it is possible to get a job. - there are many possibilities in Madrid and Barcelona. Consider relocation. - knowing Java or PHP can help further increasing possible job opportunities. I hardly hear that someone is looking for MongoDB developer. - person with such experience is probably considered by HR to be demanding in terms of salary. I would not advise asking for more than 35k€. - Also there might be a question: why still developer. I suppose there is a convincing explanation for that! (I also know many >40 years old people beeing developers). - have a look at banks. santander & bbva usualy have some job offers. either directly or through some consulting company.

I hope your dad will finaly get some nice job!

-