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1984 v. Brave New World

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Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#51

Post by krapp »

nobbyclark wrote: post #47
oceanstone wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A Brave New World? That's simply distraction taken to the nth degree. Perfectly plausible. Good point. Technology can help create newer, more engaging distractions. Magic Leap hopes to offer a new "magical" layer on top of reality, when their devices are "on", for instance. > 1984 felt just too dystopian. It just tasted wrong; like someone would have stood up and said, "No thank you" well before the point the book…

> Technology can help create newer, more engaging distractions. Watching how people react to the Occulus, "OMG it's sooo real!" I can't help thinking how badly screwed we are as a species when it goes mainstream. FarmVille addiction, World of Warcraft will look like a walk in the park to Occulus addicts who no longer know or care what reality is. Perhaps I'm just overly pessimistic

I don't think that's going to happen.

No matter now realistic Oculus appears, it's still just a device strapped to your face - it's not that immersive.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#52

Post by isleyaardvark »

Loughla wrote: post #31
netcan wrote: post #22

These are two giants in science fiction, in political philosophy and in pop culture. I'm a big fan of both. Great to read a discussion between them. First, there's the artistic stele of the books. 1984 has got this graphic novel, Noir feel to it, like Walking Dead or Sin City. Brave New World has this brightly colored surreal feel to it. It's hard to compare books that are different in this way. Overall, Orwell's wor…

See, I'm just the opposite. With as hedonistic as human nature seems to be, it makes perfect sense that the pursuit of happiness leads to nothing but; in other words, A Brave New World. 1984 felt just too dystopian. It just tasted wrong; like someone would have stood up and said, "No thank you" well before the point the book stepped into. A Brave New World? That's simply distraction taken to the nth degree. Perfectly…

That wrong taste may be a luxury we have now.

From what I've heard, 1984 was passed around as "samizdat" in the Soviet Union, and many were convinced George Orwell was actually living in the Soviet Union since his descriptions were so true to their lives.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#53

Post by mankyd »

netcan wrote: post #22

These are two giants in science fiction, in political philosophy and in pop culture. I'm a big fan of both. Great to read a discussion between them. First, there's the artistic stele of the books. 1984 has got this graphic novel, Noir feel to it, like Walking Dead or Sin City. Brave New World has this brightly colored surreal feel to it. It's hard to compare books that are different in this way. Overall, Orwell's wor…

A comic that juxtaposes then nicely:

http://www.juxtapoz.com/current/huxley-vs-orwell-in-graphic-...

I strongly feel that BNW is more realistic. Neither will play out in entirety, but we are certainly addicts of our opioid receptors.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#54

Post by zorked »

stormbrew wrote: post #15
bpodgursky wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Huxley's predictions are much harder to appreciate given the relativity of cultural norms to what we grew up experiencing. While it's certainly possible to be desensitized to totalitarian oppression, I think it's harder to really appreciate the a more gradual cultural shift wrt acceptance of mood-altering prescription drugs, sexuality, mass market entertainment, etc. Not scientific in the slightest, I just think…

One of the issues I have with Huxley's view of things is that I think it makes a massive leap from the idea of people being content to that being pathologized into being oppressed. Part of that is that I'm not sure there's ever been a point in history in which the majority of people actively contribute to the political sphere on a regular basis. They have always been distracted by something (often mere survival). Eve…

"Island" is completely pro-sex, anti-monogamy.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#55

Post by bigtunacan »

netcan wrote: post #22

These are two giants in science fiction, in political philosophy and in pop culture. I'm a big fan of both. Great to read a discussion between them. First, there's the artistic stele of the books. 1984 has got this graphic novel, Noir feel to it, like Walking Dead or Sin City. Brave New World has this brightly colored surreal feel to it. It's hard to compare books that are different in this way. Overall, Orwell's wor…

I feel like 1984 and "A Brave New World" are occurring simultaneously to varying degrees in society, but I expect in the long run, massive unexpected events (world war, sun goes nova, whatever...) that eventually we will settle into something more akin to "A Brave New World". It is simply less effort for those in power to manage a society by drugs and indirect manipulation than by brute force.

Think of all the distractions that already occur today with smart phones, facebook, twitter, continuous streaming TV, constant video games that are always with you and continuing to grow more immersive. Here we have our growing distractions.

Now start giving these things to younger and younger children; how many toddlers do you see tapping on a smart phone or a tablet?

Add to the mix a good healthy dose of drug induced behavioral control via Ritalin or Adderall, prescriptions written for these are at an all time high http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/radical-increase-in-kids-prescrib....

Fast forward to that child as an adult; they have spent their whole life on behavioral modifying drugs and start to feel uncomfortable or dissatisfied with their lot in life. What are these "strange feelings", so off to the doctor they go where they can be diagnosed with depression and get put on some Paxil/Prozac/Zoloft so they can be content going back to that same hum drum existence they were starting to question. Since they were trained as children to take behavior modifying drugs, as an adult they are predisposed to accept this as the correct course of action.

Seems to me, at least in the USA, we are already coming pretty close to Huxley's vision today.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#56

Post by maceo »

netcan wrote: post #22

These are two giants in science fiction, in political philosophy and in pop culture. I'm a big fan of both. Great to read a discussion between them. First, there's the artistic stele of the books. 1984 has got this graphic novel, Noir feel to it, like Walking Dead or Sin City. Brave New World has this brightly colored surreal feel to it. It's hard to compare books that are different in this way. Overall, Orwell's wor…

"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it." -Orwell

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#57

Post by restless »

oceanstone wrote: post #40
Loughla wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I'm just the opposite. With as hedonistic as human nature seems to be, it makes perfect sense that the pursuit of happiness leads to nothing but; in other words, A Brave New World. 1984 felt just too dystopian. It just tasted wrong; like someone would have stood up and said, "No thank you" well before the point the book stepped into. A Brave New World? That's simply distraction taken to the nth degree. Perfectly…

> A Brave New World? That's simply distraction taken to the nth degree. Perfectly plausible. Good point. Technology can help create newer, more engaging distractions. Magic Leap hopes to offer a new "magical" layer on top of reality, when their devices are "on", for instance. > 1984 felt just too dystopian. It just tasted wrong; like someone would have stood up and said, "No thank you" well before the point the book…

>"When the public is made aware of the mass surveillance programs, they do say "No thank you"" Actually they say "I've got nothing to hide" or "there is nothing you can do anyway"

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#58

Post by MilkyWayMasta »

krapp wrote: post #51
nobbyclark wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technology can help create newer, more engaging distractions. Watching how people react to the Occulus, "OMG it's sooo real!" I can't help thinking how badly screwed we are as a species when it goes mainstream. FarmVille addiction, World of Warcraft will look like a walk in the park to Occulus addicts who no longer know or care what reality is. Perhaps I'm just overly pessimistic

I don't think that's going to happen. No matter now realistic Oculus appears, it's still just a device strapped to your face - it's not that immersive.

Maybe not the Oculus Rift but that's coming out soon, one can only imagine what the next 10-20 years will bring. Here is Ray Kurzweil helping with that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=660oel93vZA

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#59

Post by Consultant32452 »

krapp wrote: post #51
nobbyclark wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technology can help create newer, more engaging distractions. Watching how people react to the Occulus, "OMG it's sooo real!" I can't help thinking how badly screwed we are as a species when it goes mainstream. FarmVille addiction, World of Warcraft will look like a walk in the park to Occulus addicts who no longer know or care what reality is. Perhaps I'm just overly pessimistic

I don't think that's going to happen. No matter now realistic Oculus appears, it's still just a device strapped to your face - it's not that immersive.

Eventually it will just be a pair of contact lenses, or even an ocular implant.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#60

Post by Matt_Cutts »

mankyd wrote: post #53
netcan wrote: post #22

These are two giants in science fiction, in political philosophy and in pop culture. I'm a big fan of both. Great to read a discussion between them. First, there's the artistic stele of the books. 1984 has got this graphic novel, Noir feel to it, like Walking Dead or Sin City. Brave New World has this brightly colored surreal feel to it. It's hard to compare books that are different in this way. Overall, Orwell's wor…

A comic that juxtaposes then nicely: http://www.juxtapoz.com/current/huxley-vs-orwell-in-graphic-... I strongly feel that BNW is more realistic. Neither will play out in entirety, but we are certainly addicts of our opioid receptors.

I came here to make sure someone had posted a link to that comic. Thanks.
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