1984 v. Brave New World

#1

Post by moritzfelipe » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 3:48 PM UTC

1984 v. Brave New World
lettersofnote.com

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#2

Post by DontBeADick » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:23 PM UTC

Neil Postman's book Amusing Ourselves to Death is a great continuation of this topic. I only wish they were still around to see how right they were.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#3

Post by stormbrew » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:23 PM UTC

Right now it rather seems Orwell had it closer to right on the predictions in the letter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/US_incarc...

Some of this stuff is expanded on in Huxley's forword to BNW[1], btw, written in 1947. I have always been fascinated by this assertion in it:

     As political and economic freedom diminishes, sexual freedom tends compensatingly to increase.

He doesn't support this axiom in the forword (or this letter), and I've always wondered if anyone has ever written a compelling, historically-based, argument for this idea.

[1] http://www.wealthandwant.com/auth/Huxley.html

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#4

Post by billgraham » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:23 PM UTC

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience."

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#5

Post by krrishd » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:28 PM UTC

stormbrew wrote: post #3

Right now it rather seems Orwell had it closer to right on the predictions in the letter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/US_incarc... Some of this stuff is expanded on in Huxley's forword to BNW[1], btw, written in 1947. I have always been fascinated by this assertion in it: As political and economic freedom diminishes, sexual freedom tends compensatingly to increase. He doesn't support this axiom…

I think both Orwell and Huxley had some extremely prescient insight on the future, and I personally felt that we have come to somewhat of an Orwellian time period, although a lot of Huxley's predictions will be seen in the long term future as well.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#6

Post by aprdm » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:30 PM UTC

Illustrates it well: http://postimg.org/image/ue0pdq56r/

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#7

Post by codeulike » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:32 PM UTC

At the time of this letter, Aldous Huxley was very into 'Animal Magnetism' and Hypnotism (read his novel 'Island' to see his utopian vision for such things). He seems to somewhat overrate their potence. 65 years later Animal Magnetism is long forgotten and hypnotism is slightly helpful for giving up smoking or being a bit less angry.

I feel sorry for past thinkers who could only stumble upon ideas from books and digest them one at a time, rather than instantly find the history and connections and evidence and counter-arguments for an idea as we can now.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#8

Post by dicroce » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:34 PM UTC

I think the problem with Huxleys predictions come from his not realizing how blunt an instrument narcotics are... Fine work and subtle tweaks are beyond our power (just look at the side effects)... Using drugs to adjust personality is like using a sledgehammer to rearrange porcelain figurines. Not that we might not get there of course.... but we'll have many years of boots stomping on faces in the interim.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#9

Post by bpodgursky » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:38 PM UTC

stormbrew wrote: post #3

Right now it rather seems Orwell had it closer to right on the predictions in the letter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/US_incarc... Some of this stuff is expanded on in Huxley's forword to BNW[1], btw, written in 1947. I have always been fascinated by this assertion in it: As political and economic freedom diminishes, sexual freedom tends compensatingly to increase. He doesn't support this axiom…

IMO Huxley's predictions are much harder to appreciate given the relativity of cultural norms to what we grew up experiencing. While it's certainly possible to be desensitized to totalitarian oppression, I think it's harder to really appreciate the a more gradual cultural shift wrt acceptance of mood-altering prescription drugs, sexuality, mass market entertainment, etc.

Not scientific in the slightest, I just think it's easier to miss the subtler ways that Huxley's predictions have been realized.

Re: 1984 v. Brave New World

#10

Post by DanielBMarkham » Thu, Oct 23, 2014, 4:38 PM UTC

Sadly, we are learning this is not an either-or proposition: it's perfectly logical that some elements of society will seek to narcoticize us while others worry about increasing our surveillance and control.

And the worst part? Both of these elements do these things because we ask them to.