Earlier quoted context omitted.
Colleges are academic institutions. If you want to be semi-pro athlete rather than a student-athlete, you should join a semi-pro team rather than an academic institution.
There are no semi pro football teams. Simplifying it all down to that is naive and ignorant, the athletes are using the system that's been put in place for them to succeed. Ignoring the NCAA route in favor of anything else at this point isn't just career suicide, it's career abortion.
U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
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Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#62Honestly, doesn't this make anyone wonder what the point is of college in the first place? Even without the equivalent of special ed courses, it's not like most (any?) athletes study STEM courses that might require university certification. Literally the only point of their enrollment is to make money for the school, then shuffle off with a communications degree and work in a shoe store the rest of their lives. Yes,…
I mostly disagree with your premise. This is a problem that only really afflicts two college sports: football & basketball, which are not coincidentally the only revenue sports at most schools. Most student-athletes take academics as seriously as their sport(s), and I think the fact that American colleges & universities offer top quality athletic programs as well as academic educations one of the best things about th…
The ostensible point of university is to develop a student's mind to solve problems -- preferably in the real world, though humanities programs insist that paying $50k+/year to read poetry is just as valuable an investment. Even if you take that assertion at face value, I'm not sure anyone, anywhere pretends that playing basketball prepares the student-athlete for anything at all. Almost none of them have a chance at a professional sports contract. Most will graduate with useless majors, having squandered their youth and their health on pointless competitions to throw a ball in a hoop. It's STUPID. Everyone involved is wasting their time.
I'm all for athletics in colleges. I played intramural sports and enjoyed it, because nobody pretended that it mattered. But I really don't see a compelling case for the subsidy of organized college sports... which, like someone pointed out, is really just a a subsidy for professional organizations.
And it's not just the pointless waste of time and money in college sports. The argument for college as an institution is getting weaker and weaker as free online alternatives get better and better. Aside from getting drunk and cheering against UMichigan, what compelling features does Ohio State University offer versus Harvard's courses on edX?
Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are no semi pro football teams. Simplifying it all down to that is naive and ignorant, the athletes are using the system that's been put in place for them to succeed. Ignoring the NCAA route in favor of anything else at this point isn't just career suicide, it's career abortion.
http://www.semiprofootball.org/
Looking at the lowest level of college football, there are only 11 active roster NFL players from a D3 school. [0]
There are 1,696 active NFL players, that's a 0.6 percent chance of 'making it', at the lowest level of the game.
Again, absolute and utter career suicide because of some moral grievance.
Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe professional sports should change the way they recruit, and leave academic institutions out of the picture. The NFL has enough money to set up a more extensive farm league system, or maybe they could have a junior league based on smaller cities? FWIW, I have heard of the NBA showing interest in kids in high school. I am not sure if they actually recruited any of them, though.
The NBA currently disallows drafting players straight out of high school, but for a decently long era it was allowed and a lot of the biggest stars who entered the NBA at that time were drafted from high school, including Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and Kevin Garnett.
Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mostly disagree with your premise. This is a problem that only really afflicts two college sports: football & basketball, which are not coincidentally the only revenue sports at most schools. Most student-athletes take academics as seriously as their sport(s), and I think the fact that American colleges & universities offer top quality athletic programs as well as academic educations one of the best things about th…
Well, I agree with you that the rowing/badminton/chess teams probably don't get special treatment. But you don't seem to question the value of "top quality athletic programs." Why do we want them to exist in the first place? The ostensible point of university is to develop a student's mind to solve problems -- preferably in the real world, though humanities programs insist that paying $50k+/year to read poetry is jus…
Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, they are getting compensation in terms of free tuition, room and board, etc... these things do have significant value. If they complete school, they get to walk away with a degree without any debt. That's not trivial. However , the athletes are only able to actualize this compensation if they can freely choose their majors, are able to take the classes they want, and actually earn their education. By creating a…
I think a brunt of the issue is that their exploitation is what is being used to generate that "significant value". Here's an article about the latest NCAA reform vote on [edit: student-]athlete compensation: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/06/us-ncaa-rules-idUS...
It turns out that people want to watch their school beat another school, and they aren't particular about the athletes. You can say the individuals bring value, but they destroy an equal amount of value at some other school when they succeed.
Witness the last NBA lockout when the players had some all-star games and couldn't fill the seats. A mature competitive league is responsible for far more of the revenue than it gets credit for.
Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#67With regard to college athletes ... I think they should be on a college team. I think they should be going to college. I do not think they should be paid. Like most people, they are preparing for their future in the field of their interest. The issue, in my opinion, is that we attempt to shoehorn them into "traditional" curriculum. They're forced to choose a major, often funneled into the easiest thing just to get th…
Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#68With regard to college athletes ... I think they should be on a college team. I think they should be going to college. I do not think they should be paid. Like most people, they are preparing for their future in the field of their interest. The issue, in my opinion, is that we attempt to shoehorn them into "traditional" curriculum. They're forced to choose a major, often funneled into the easiest thing just to get th…
Problem is, only 1.7% of college football players are ever going to play professional ball.
As mentioned, the curriculum would also include tangentially related fields.
Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, they are getting compensation in terms of free tuition, room and board, etc... these things do have significant value. If they complete school, they get to walk away with a degree without any debt. That's not trivial. However , the athletes are only able to actualize this compensation if they can freely choose their majors, are able to take the classes they want, and actually earn their education. By creating a…
> Well, they are getting compensation in terms of free tuition, room and board, etc... these things do have significant value. Compare and contrast with the money an 18-21 year old second team player at Real Madrid or Barcelona makes and get back to me on the "significant value". Especially when the athletes are being funneled through second-rate degrees to free up their time for sport.
I do think that most public colleges should get out of the business of fielding sports teams. Except for the best schools, they will not be a net positive financially.
Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes
#70Why is every semi-pro athlete expected to get a decent GPA in order to play on a university's football team? It's a completely different skillset. I don't blame players for ditching classes to pursue their dreams. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's the same drive as an entrepreneur's: to test yourself, to excel. It's just a different context. They are adults. If, as adults, they choose not to pursue academic studies,…
The problem is that they're being exploited. Choose to go to class or not, they are not being paid anything remotely close to the value that these schools get from them in terms of team gear sales, ad revenue, tv time, increased enrollment, etc etc etc. This is especially true when they're turning in BS papers for crap degrees that can't and won't serve them once they leave school. A minuscule few make it pro. The re…
I'm tired of seeing this argument without data. If you sit down and think about the numbers, you'll see that for the vast majority of NCAA athletes, this is false. Most get a very sweet deal relative to their market value if the NCAA did not exist.
First, limit to the NCAA sports that actually produce revenue, essentially men's football and basketball. If the NCAA did not exist, these players would at best be in a minor league (again except for the top dozen or two in the country). Now look at a sport that has a minor league in America: baseball. Minor league baseball players, even toward the top, make how much? $2000-3000 per month. And that's only in-season.
Paid tuition is already worth higher in cash value than that. And the value of the student-athlete experience? You can't put a price tag on it. Ask any former NCAA athlete what they would trade to give up their experience.
But, you respond, NCAA sports make way more money than baseball minor leagues. Yes, that's true. But it's not solely because of the players. It's because of the schools. Schools bring almost everything important to the table: A huge fanbase, a connection to a physical location and community, an illusion of amateur-ness, rivalries, all of these things you can't get to nearly that extent outside the NCAA.
The players? They have no bargaining power because without the NCAA system, they'd be hosed. They'd be working even harder for essentially less money, living a tougher lifestyle, and not even get the degree to show for it. Hard to argue they should be paid when they bring very little to the table compared to the schools.
The point people miss is that it's the combination of the schools and the players together that generates so much revenue. Either without the other would be out of luck. And right now, if you think about the numbers, the current split is pretty fair. The exception might be the few star players who could make millions in the pros.
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I want to say, I'm not saying that players aren't exploited currently. I think they are. But I think the exploitation boils down to your second paragraph: They lose a real education because they don't have their priorities in line at that point in their lives.
But the solution isn't to pay kids even more money/benefits to continue to masquerade as students while living as full-time athletes. The solution should be to divorce sports from education and create minor leagues. This will never happen because, as I stated above, it's the combination of schools and sports that generates so much money, and the people at the top won't give that up just to do the right thing.