Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#41

Post by codygman » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 11:16 PM UTC

acmecorps wrote: post #30

msutherl wrote: post #28

None of the existing answers seem particularly convincing to me. Here's how I have chosen: pick the framework that is most popular with the people you want to work with, projects you want to work on, or companies you want to work at. If you're building simple websites for clients (publishers, small business owners, etc.), PHP is probably still the best choice, and usually Wordpress. It runs with no config on standard…

> That said, Ruby is trending down, Python is trending up http://trends.builtwith.com/framework/Ruby-on-Rails vs http://trends.builtwith.com/framework/Python Or am I interpreting this wrongly? shrug

Interesting, that site is showing a "network error" in the console on Firefox in Windows for me. Have to see if it displays in Firefox/Linux.

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#42

Post by atmosx » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 1:00 PM UTC

vqc wrote: post #33

mhartl wrote: post #8

Is there any framework in the JavaScript world as mature as Rails or Django (or with as many features)? This isn't a rhetorical question; as the author of the Ruby on Rails Tutorial , I'd like to know what (if anything) I should be looking at next.

Meteor is about to hit 1.0. The current go to tutorial for Meteor is https://www.discovermeteor.com/ . And a good snapshot of the current learning resources can be found at https://www.yauh.de/best-learning-resources-for-meteorjs/ . I still owe you an email.

I saw "Meteor" presentation on their website yesterday. The 'real-time' client-server approach is impressive. I was impressed. Their straight-forward non-MVC approach might be handy for small projects.

To me "Meteor" looked more like a direct competitor to Sinatra than Rails.

Anyhow "Meteor" seems pretty impressive.

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#43

Post by ziikutv » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 1:14 PM UTC

Kronopath wrote: post #19

This feels like what happens when a web developer fails to realize that the web is not the be-all-and-end-all of software development. Do you want to create fantastic 3D graphics and visual effects? Best learn C++ and OpenGL. Do you want to develop a highly resilient parallel system that can be patched without downtime? Learn Erlang. Do you want to program an embedded system, or anything where you need to be close to…

I was only talking about in web development context but yes I know/use some languages you have listed. I do embedded system programming, also design hardware and do FPGA related stuff. :)

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#44

Post by ziikutv » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 1:16 PM UTC

msutherl wrote: post #27

Kronopath wrote: post #19

This feels like what happens when a web developer fails to realize that the web is not the be-all-and-end-all of software development. Do you want to create fantastic 3D graphics and visual effects? Best learn C++ and OpenGL. Do you want to develop a highly resilient parallel system that can be patched without downtime? Learn Erlang. Do you want to program an embedded system, or anything where you need to be close to…

It's pretty clear from the post that he's talking about web development. And I don't think your 'all eggs in one basket' argument makes much sense. JavaScript will always be the (or, a) scripting language for the browser, and if something new emerges, we will all have plenty of time to prepare. As for backend trends, they evolve slowly. One needn't worry about being caught unprepared for some sudden change.

Actually some people are using javascript + node for embedded systems. But I only am interested in opinions related to web/phone development :)

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#45

Post by ziikutv » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 1:18 PM UTC

yen223 wrote: post #36

mrcwinn wrote: post #17

You don't sound even minimally stupid. :) I wouldn't necessarily advocate any of those specific frameworks, but I do think there is life outside of JavaScript. I actually don't think JavaScript (particularly on the server) is a very good language at all. Blasphemy, I know. As someone who has spent time with JS frameworks like Ember, Meteor, and the rest, as well as libraries and component systems like Rendr, React, a…

> "I actually don't think JavaScript (particularly on the server) is a very good language at all. Blasphemy, I know." That's a relatively common sentiment here, and I agree that JavaScript isn't that great a language. In fact I would argue that it has so many warts, so many problems that if it weren't for its first-mover advantage in the browser space, JavaScript would be dead by now.

even #javascript agrees to this. To be honest, picking up anything JS related was easy for me. I love npm, I love grunt (actually gulp now) compared to what ruby brings to the table ...

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#46

Post by ziikutv » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 1:23 PM UTC

vqc wrote: post #33

mhartl wrote: post #8

Is there any framework in the JavaScript world as mature as Rails or Django (or with as many features)? This isn't a rhetorical question; as the author of the Ruby on Rails Tutorial , I'd like to know what (if anything) I should be looking at next.

Meteor is about to hit 1.0. The current go to tutorial for Meteor is https://www.discovermeteor.com/ . And a good snapshot of the current learning resources can be found at https://www.yauh.de/best-learning-resources-for-meteorjs/ . I still owe you an email.

I already know of Meteor. its great. I like it more than Rails, or any other framework in the market. The question, though worded inappropriately, was that I notice everything related to JS.. what the fudge cookies is happening in the other languages?

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#47

Post by ziikutv » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 1:29 PM UTC

rubiquity wrote: post #39

mackwic wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why highly suspect ? We know and use cooperative concurrency since decades. Agreed on the "not suitable for all" but no one said that.

Cooperative concurrency is fine and a lot of languages use cooperative concurrency just fine. The issue with Node is that it completely ignored the multicore reality that we live in. Everyone argues that multithreading is so complex, and it is unless you have the right abstractions. But what is guaranteed to always be complex is single-threading with process forking. As soon as you want to communicate between process…

The stuff you were saying about forking, IPC... it made me giggle because I just wrote a midterm on these concepts last night :)

Thanks.

Erlang seems interesting, would you mind expanding on Erlang or GO?

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#48

Post by Kronopath » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 1:59 PM UTC

ziikutv wrote: post #43

Kronopath wrote: post #19

This feels like what happens when a web developer fails to realize that the web is not the be-all-and-end-all of software development. Do you want to create fantastic 3D graphics and visual effects? Best learn C++ and OpenGL. Do you want to develop a highly resilient parallel system that can be patched without downtime? Learn Erlang. Do you want to program an embedded system, or anything where you need to be close to…

I was only talking about in web development context but yes I know/use some languages you have listed. I do embedded system programming, also design hardware and do FPGA related stuff. :)

Good to know, I guess that makes my answer quite a bit less relevant. I just tend to get frustrated when I see people who've only done web stuff treat "programming" and "web programming" as synonymous.

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#49

Post by ziikutv » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 2:09 PM UTC

acmecorps wrote: post #30

msutherl wrote: post #28

None of the existing answers seem particularly convincing to me. Here's how I have chosen: pick the framework that is most popular with the people you want to work with, projects you want to work on, or companies you want to work at. If you're building simple websites for clients (publishers, small business owners, etc.), PHP is probably still the best choice, and usually Wordpress. It runs with no config on standard…

> That said, Ruby is trending down, Python is trending up http://trends.builtwith.com/framework/Ruby-on-Rails vs http://trends.builtwith.com/framework/Python Or am I interpreting this wrongly? shrug

There is a graph of the amount of JS repos on Github, its exponentially increasing (granted its not all web related)

Re: Ask HN: Why learn non-JS languages/framework?

#50

Post by ziikutv » Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 2:12 PM UTC

I cannot edit the main thread but, thanks for all the answers.. Some of the interesting messages mentioned, Go, Erlang, and JVM (I know that JVM is faster than Node, but how do i go about using JVM backend with say XYZ frontend. And what should XYZ be?)