I have 15 year old daughter and would love to get her more interested in computer science. She is doing good in school getting A in math/science, etc. Any suggestions from HN on how best to guide her interests? Extra project? incentive? For now, her interests are typical teenage - school clubs, facebook, youtube, tumblr, etc.
When Women Stopped Coding
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Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#72This story makes a compelling case that women stopped programming because - 1. Computers started being sold as consumer products - 2. They were marketed almost exclusively to boys - 3. Boys played with computers and learned about them, while girls were made to feel that computers weren't for them - 3. Men showed up to college with more computer experience - 4. Women felt they must not be "naturally good" at computers…
I find this explanation extremely hollow. Most programmers didn't start programming when they were kids. They started when they realized it was a good paycheck.
Hmm.. I wonder if that's true of younger programmers, but I don't think I've met a single one around my age (early 30's, late 20's) who didn't start when they were young. I got my start near the end of high school and I felt _impossibly_ late. I still do, frankly.
Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#73This story makes a compelling case that women stopped programming because - 1. Computers started being sold as consumer products - 2. They were marketed almost exclusively to boys - 3. Boys played with computers and learned about them, while girls were made to feel that computers weren't for them - 3. Men showed up to college with more computer experience - 4. Women felt they must not be "naturally good" at computers…
In the Eastern Bloc countries nobody bothered to market computers, for many reasons including closed off markets and economical disasters. They also valued gender equality a lot. But the end result was absolute the same - massive male domination in everything computer-related.
So i's not marketing.
Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? Don't really follow your logic. My hypothesis is that women (specifically teenage girls) just aren't interested in the field / profession so they decide not to study it in school or search for jobs in the field. Perhaps this is because they are discouraged from trying it by their teachers or media, perhaps its because they don't have the confidence to believe they'll succeed, perhaps they think it's not cool, pe…
The "aren't interested" hypothesis would also need to explain why the physical sciences haven't had the same decline in involvement as computer science nor why there is a specific decline in participation in computer science but not in the other categories. I don't think anyone is afraid to suggest that girls aren't interested in the field, it's just that it is a very unsatisfying answer and it doesn't really make se…
|it doesn't really make sense to generalize about more than half the population.
It does in the context of gender. Sure there are outliers but men and women are generally interested in different things. To deny this is to fail to realise a huge aspect of human behaviour.
Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#75I am a female born in 1983 and have always been deeply interested in computers, but have nonetheless felt inexplicably out of place for it. I was in advanced math classes my entire life and placed out of calculus in college. I took a summer programming class at a different university in 2000 and fell in love with programming. But when I got back to school, I took another CS class that was exactly as described in this…
> I can't quite articulate the feelings of isolation and frustration I felt in that class,
Probably a feeling many nerds have had at some point in their life.
Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? Don't really follow your logic. My hypothesis is that women (specifically teenage girls) just aren't interested in the field / profession so they decide not to study it in school or search for jobs in the field. Perhaps this is because they are discouraged from trying it by their teachers or media, perhaps its because they don't have the confidence to believe they'll succeed, perhaps they think it's not cool, pe…
The "aren't interested" hypothesis would also need to explain why the physical sciences haven't had the same decline in involvement as computer science nor why there is a specific decline in participation in computer science but not in the other categories. I don't think anyone is afraid to suggest that girls aren't interested in the field, it's just that it is a very unsatisfying answer and it doesn't really make se…
I can't add much more than just curious guesses into this discussion but someone else mentioned the idea of video games attracting people towards programming. I'm pretty sure there is a strong male sexual preference towards video games as children and teens. I wonder if the rise of popularity of video games could coincide with this change? It doesn't have to be that women became less interested, it is possible that a new demographic of people (which happened to skew heavily male) became interested in programming. But anyway, I have nothing to back that up, just spitballin. :p
Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gaming has been a hell of a gateway drug for programming.
I concur. I got into programming because I couldn't complete a level in a game, and I resorted to cheat-codes and hacks. First it was the missing-no hack in Pokemon, then getting the console for "sv_cheats 1/god/impulse 101/noclip" for Half-Life and then rules.ini for the Red Alert series. Hand hacking rules.ini for Red-Alert made a massive impression, any of the game's dynamics could be altered, you could spew out u…
Using ResourceFork to give my tiny shuttle Class 6 Plasma Cannons in Escape Velocity...
Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#78This story makes a compelling case that women stopped programming because - 1. Computers started being sold as consumer products - 2. They were marketed almost exclusively to boys - 3. Boys played with computers and learned about them, while girls were made to feel that computers weren't for them - 3. Men showed up to college with more computer experience - 4. Women felt they must not be "naturally good" at computers…
This seems to miss an explanation for why the marketing was directed at boys in the first place.
... which will hopefully explain why Lego markets the normal* range to boys. Or not.
Of course there's the Lego Friends range targetting girls, but it is once again about houses, cooking, flowers and rainbow poneys, and not at all as educative as Lego Technics.
*Such as the Lego City and Lego Creator ranges which must be the legos we encounter the most.
Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? Don't really follow your logic. My hypothesis is that women (specifically teenage girls) just aren't interested in the field / profession so they decide not to study it in school or search for jobs in the field. Perhaps this is because they are discouraged from trying it by their teachers or media, perhaps its because they don't have the confidence to believe they'll succeed, perhaps they think it's not cool, pe…
What does 'not interested' connote? And how do you frame it? Consider these two statements: 1) The female sex is intrinsically(biologically) uninterested in Computer Science. 2) Girl's are raised in an environment that pushes their interest away from Computer Science. In each statement, girls are not interested in Computer Science. But the first statement carries a tremendous amount of baggage with it, and comments o…
OK, well it wasn't really clear by the parent comment whether they were referring to nature, nurture, or both. And I don't think it really matters. He just said
``` [the] "women just aren't as interested in programming" trope rings hollow ```
To me the comment implies he is "afraid of admitting that girls have been less interested in pursuing Computer Science than men".
Re: When Women Stopped Coding
#80This story makes a compelling case that women stopped programming because - 1. Computers started being sold as consumer products - 2. They were marketed almost exclusively to boys - 3. Boys played with computers and learned about them, while girls were made to feel that computers weren't for them - 3. Men showed up to college with more computer experience - 4. Women felt they must not be "naturally good" at computers…
"They were marketed almost exclusively to boys"
Back before anyone was really marketing computers in any mainstream way, I remember gathering around the few that were available in the school library or in a math teacher's classroom.
The only people interested EVER were boys.
It had nothing to do with marketing.