Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free • Hacker News Board

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#51

Post by aral » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

salimmadjd wrote: post #44

Swift is a beautiful language but you want to keep it all to yourself. We don't know that's true or not. AFAIK, Apple has not officially commented on this topic. Actually, having spoken with Swift team in Apple (rather not mention their names in case they get in trouble) on this topic, they seemed to be happy opening it up in general and opening it up as a general purpose language. Swift could ultimately replace C++…

Indeed, I believe there is some internal conflict on this. Hopefully Phoenix will help sway the debate.

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#52

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #45

pjmlp wrote: post #25

I really don't get why people stress over this. Swift only has value with the Mac OS X and iOS ecosystems, specially as a mean to drag Objective-C developers into the FP world. There are so many open source languages in the ML family, a few of them are even used in the industry for several years now. Just go and join one of those projects. They will appreciate any help they can get.

> Swift only has value with the Mac OS X and iOS ecosystems And .NET only had value in the MS world before Mono which very popular.

Windows developers have fully embraced it since the early days, most of them don't care about Mono.

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#53

Post by aral » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #25

I really don't get why people stress over this. Swift only has value with the Mac OS X and iOS ecosystems, specially as a mean to drag Objective-C developers into the FP world. There are so many open source languages in the ML family, a few of them are even used in the industry for several years now. Just go and join one of those projects. They will appreciate any help they can get.

Also remember that Swift is already starting to be taught in schools. Imagine if a natural language that is taught in schools was tied to a single company. If, for example, you needed an Apple pen to write English. How much of literature would we have missed out on? Would Shakespeare have been able to afford an Apple pen? Thankfully, we never have to find out ;)

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#54

Post by aral » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #25

I really don't get why people stress over this. Swift only has value with the Mac OS X and iOS ecosystems, specially as a mean to drag Objective-C developers into the FP world. There are so many open source languages in the ML family, a few of them are even used in the industry for several years now. Just go and join one of those projects. They will appreciate any help they can get.

Also remember that Swift is already starting to be taught in schools. Imagine if a natural language that is taught in schools was tied to a single company. If, for example, you needed an Apple pen to write English. How much of literature would we have missed out on? Would Shakespeare have been able to afford an Apple pen? Thankfully, we never have to find out ;)

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#55

Post by jkrems » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

chc wrote: post #29

k-mcgrady wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that but it's only been available to the public for a few months. Apple were likely focussed completely on getting it ready for dev to use in iOS 8. That's where all their man power was. Give them some time.

It's been 33 days since iOS 8 came out. It takes 30 seconds to tweet "Hey, we have some cleaning up to do before we open up Swift, but it's coming some time in the next two years!" They have not even expressed an interest in open-sourcing it. Any thought of Apple open-sourcing Swift at this point is pure fantasy, so the suggestion that we "give them some time" doesn't make any sense to me.

They have expressed interest in open-sourcing Swift pretty much immediately after announcing it. Both on Twitter and later (?) on the LLVM mailing list. No official Apple announcement and far from a guarantee that it will happen - but "they have not even expressed an interest" isn't true.

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#56

Post by electic » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

MCRed wrote: post #21

electic wrote: post #18

Seeing more and more thoughts be published like this in the last few months. It seems developer discontent might be growing with Apple.

This is the kind of unfounded complaints we've seen from people about Apple going back at least to the 1980s. More recently, there was an "outcry" when Apple waited a few months to release the latest version of OS X as open source after releasing the retail version. Truth is, Apple is pretty good about open sourcing their stuff, especially when compared to their peers (Microsoft, Oracle). But that doesn't fit the "Go…

Here is another one today.

http://9to5mac.com/2014/10/21/rapidweaver-6/

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#57

Post by aral » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:55 PM UTC

listic wrote: post #42

achalkley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "stratosphere" is the Cloud platform. The phone from AFAIK is Indie Phone.

I wish Indie Phone all the best, but... haven't OpenMoko http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko and Ubuntu Edge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Edge shown that open source phones just don't fly? I surely wish they did.

The phone is several years away… we’re concentrating on building the platform at the moment — starting with a lovely way to share stuff you care about between your devices and with other people (without any Facebook-like creepy uncle in the middle — thus, peer-to-peer). Once we get the UX right on the core, we’ll go from there. If we fuck up the UX, none of the other stuff matters. That’s really where we differ with Openmoko, etc. :)

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#58

Post by metafex » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:56 PM UTC

listic wrote: post #42

achalkley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "stratosphere" is the Cloud platform. The phone from AFAIK is Indie Phone.

I wish Indie Phone all the best, but... haven't OpenMoko http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko and Ubuntu Edge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Edge shown that open source phones just don't fly? I surely wish they did.

On the contrary the Neo900 phone shows that even very small batches of open-hardware phones can be made. The difference with open source projects is the passion that makes them work (even if just for a few people) :)

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#59

Post by chc » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:59 PM UTC

jkrems wrote: post #55

chc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been 33 days since iOS 8 came out. It takes 30 seconds to tweet "Hey, we have some cleaning up to do before we open up Swift, but it's coming some time in the next two years!" They have not even expressed an interest in open-sourcing it. Any thought of Apple open-sourcing Swift at this point is pure fantasy, so the suggestion that we "give them some time" doesn't make any sense to me.

They have expressed interest in open-sourcing Swift pretty much immediately after announcing it. Both on Twitter and later (?) on the LLVM mailing list. No official Apple announcement and far from a guarantee that it will happen - but "they have not even expressed an interest" isn't true.

Not unless you've seen something I haven't. Chris Lattner said that although he was personally interested in open-sourcing it, Apple had no intention of ever doing so at that time. To my knowledge, that is the last we ever heard of it

Re: Introducing Phoenix, Swift set free

#60

Post by GeorgeMac » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

Just a shout to say, if you believe in what the ind.ie guys are doing, then please sign their manifesto: https://ind.ie/about/manifesto/ It's time we valued our privacy one again.