The Lyme Wars (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#11

Post by nemo » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:13 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #2

The unfortunate reality is that both the CDC and the patient advocacy groups are lying their asses off. On the CDC side, all the recommendations are based around lyme when, as this article points out, there are dozens of tickborne infections including probably many that haven't even been discovered yet. So the 'official' clinical guidelines around treating tickborne illnesses make no sense. And in general many of the…

Yeah, the CDC could do better, hopefully more empirical research will give more clues on the people with long-term effects.

ILADS integrity roughly equivalent to an anti-vaccine organization. Pseudo-science, misinformation, lots of hand-waving, and immediate dismissal of any data that doesn't fit their preconceptions.

The CDC is a flawed bureaucracy, but at least there's the hope that once more empirical medical research has established better treatments they'll base their approach on that. ILADS will be telling people to eat weird diets and use magical treatments for a few decades after a fully effective treatment is out there.

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#12

Post by gkop » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:17 PM UTC

ckinnan wrote: post #8

Lyme is now the number one infectious disease in New England. Until medical science finds an effective cure, the best solution is to hunt deer populations back down to historical and sustainable levels, around 10 or 15 deer per square mile. (current populations approach 60 deer per square mile in some areas). While mice are the most important reservoir for Lyme (and pass it to humans via tick nymphs), the adult black…

This also accurately describes the deer overpopulation in Pennsylvania, where there is also rampant lyme disease. In Pennsylvania, the deer hunters really enjoy the status quo, because of the good odds they can bag a buck every year. And because the hunters have some political influence, proposals to reduce the deer population go nowhere. I'm not sure if the political landscape is similar in New England.

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#13

Post by SloopJon » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:26 PM UTC

Kenji wrote: post #9

I had Lyme disease and I started having symptoms (but no rash) roughly after 1-2 weeks after the tick bite (feeling unwell, shivering, joint pains, swollen lymph nodes). I then took antibiotics for almost 2 weeks. I continued to have severe joint pain for a couple of months. Now, more than a year later, I am feeling well, but sometimes I still feel a very slight joint pain in those affected joints near that tick bite…

I tested positive for Lyme a couple of months after noticing what I thought was a spider bite. It didn't have the distinctive bullseye, but it gave me a sunburn-like rash over my entire upper arm. I took three weeks of doxycycline.

I can't definitively point to Lyme as the cause, but my knees were a little worse than usual for a while, and my hearing got worse in one ear (not yet recovered).

On the plus side, I discovered probiotics, which seem to be good for my, er, digestion.

It's funny, even though I had just seen Daryl Hall talk about his struggle with Lyme disease on Live from Daryl's House, it didn't occur to me that the bite on my arm might be from a tick.

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#14

Post by autism_hurts » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:27 PM UTC

While I am decidedly NOT in the conspiracy camp, Lyme Disease is peculiar.

Some say it originated from Plum Island... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Island_(New_York)

Ticks were researched there as a sort of biologcal weapon vector (Tick Bombs) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Island_Animal_Disease_Cent...

" The book advances the idea that Lyme disease originated at Plum Island and conjectures several means by which animal diseases could have left the island. David Weld, the executive director of the American Lyme Disease Foundation, generically opined that "I personally just don't think that has any merit" yet refused to be specific or comment on the number of birds that come into contact with the island and fly back and forth between the mainland, possibly carrying infected ticks.[10]"

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#15

Post by XFrequentist » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:28 PM UTC

ckinnan wrote: post #8

Lyme is now the number one infectious disease in New England. Until medical science finds an effective cure, the best solution is to hunt deer populations back down to historical and sustainable levels, around 10 or 15 deer per square mile. (current populations approach 60 deer per square mile in some areas). While mice are the most important reservoir for Lyme (and pass it to humans via tick nymphs), the adult black…

My understanding is that deer are required for long-distance transport of black legged tick populations, but are not absolutely required to complete the full two-year life cycle.

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#16

Post by fasteo » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:30 PM UTC

gkop wrote: post #12

ckinnan wrote: post #8

Lyme is now the number one infectious disease in New England. Until medical science finds an effective cure, the best solution is to hunt deer populations back down to historical and sustainable levels, around 10 or 15 deer per square mile. (current populations approach 60 deer per square mile in some areas). While mice are the most important reservoir for Lyme (and pass it to humans via tick nymphs), the adult black…

This also accurately describes the deer overpopulation in Pennsylvania, where there is also rampant lyme disease. In Pennsylvania, the deer hunters really enjoy the status quo, because of the good odds they can bag a buck every year. And because the hunters have some political influence, proposals to reduce the deer population go nowhere. I'm not sure if the political landscape is similar in New England.

Looking at this from the outside, it seems to me that deer hunters are more likely to get lyme disease and so, they should favor deer population control.

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#17

Post by amluto » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:30 PM UTC

I'm surprised that the article doesn't mention LYMERix, the FDA-licensed vaccine that seems to be a casualty of anti-vaccine hysteria and a somewhat overzealous legal system. There seems to be a tiny suggestion that the vaccine might cause some issues, but all the studies seem to show that this isn't a problem.

Also, vaccinating dogs against Lyme disease is standard practice, and it doesn't seem to hurt the dogs.

Here are some references:

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/52/suppl_3/s253.long

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#18

Post by fasteo » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:32 PM UTC

odonnellryan wrote: post #4

I had Lyme disease (tested positive, treated.) I've felt "like shit" for probably at least the last year.

If you haven´t, I suggest Longecity forums [1]. There are a few members that have/are battling lyme and it is full of good advice.

[1] http://www.longecity.org/forum

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#19

Post by goodcanadian » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:42 PM UTC

I remember another article, some time back, where it compared the standard treatment for humans with a tick bite: wait to see if anything develops versus the standard treatment for dogs with a tick bite: immediate prophylactic antibiotics. The dogs had a much lower rate of chronic problems.

Re: The Lyme Wars (2013)

#20

Post by Vomzor » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 7:04 PM UTC

Kenji wrote: post #9

I had Lyme disease and I started having symptoms (but no rash) roughly after 1-2 weeks after the tick bite (feeling unwell, shivering, joint pains, swollen lymph nodes). I then took antibiotics for almost 2 weeks. I continued to have severe joint pain for a couple of months. Now, more than a year later, I am feeling well, but sometimes I still feel a very slight joint pain in those affected joints near that tick bite…

I have Lyme disease. Tick bite when I was 10 years old, finally discovered I have Lyme at age 26, after years of suffering and getting more symptoms year after year. I'm now at the beginning of a long term antibiotics course. After 2 months of antibiotics, my foggy brain is starting to clear up again... for one or two hours a day in the evening I can think & focus again. The rest of the day I'm useless.

So it seems 2 months isn't enough to get rid of all the nasty bacteria, let alone two weeks! Yes, long term antibiotics has it risks but I wouldn't call it stupid when there's no other choice.

Furthermore, every 2 months the doctor switches the antibiotics, prescribes refrigerated probiotics with trillions of living cells & does regular blood checks (also for yeasts).