Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 51 posts

Re: How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

#31

Post by Mithaldu »

SerpentJoe wrote: post #23
Mithaldu wrote: post #4

The most important thing is to state unmisunderstandably, before you start the project, that you are making an estimate which has an error range of +/- 3 orders of magnitude and that you will be revising it as you go along. Once that is clear, the customer is prepared and will be expecting and able to handle estimate revisions whenever you make them.

6 orders of magnitude is the difference between minutes and years. I don't think I've ever heard of an estimate with that much variance.

Let me rephrase it: Unless you're very sure, a project you thought would take two hours, can take only a minute of google, or 2 months of hard work.

Re: How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

#32

Post by hga »

SerpentJoe wrote: post #23
Mithaldu wrote: post #4

The most important thing is to state unmisunderstandably, before you start the project, that you are making an estimate which has an error range of +/- 3 orders of magnitude and that you will be revising it as you go along. Once that is clear, the customer is prepared and will be expecting and able to handle estimate revisions whenever you make them.

6 orders of magnitude is the difference between minutes and years. I don't think I've ever heard of an estimate with that much variance.

Indeed. However months to years is all too common.

Heh, sometimes the outer limit is infinity, it becomes clear it'll never get done and is canceled.

Re: How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

#34

Post by saidajigumi »

edw519 wrote: post #15

How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate? Immediately, with brutal honesty, and positively. 1. Immediately: Never delay communication. Most people will be less upset about the schedule than the fact that they weren't informed. 2. With Brutal Honesty: Explain exactly what's going on. You may end up with a pleasant surprise. "Oh, can we just have xyz then?" or "How can we reduce the scope?" or " How can we h…

I'll add that in a healthy environment, this communication opens up avenues that the (frightened, frustrated, isolated) developer doesn't have while alone: the whole team is now available to help think about real priorities, entirely different ways to achieve the end-goal, ways to put more resource and/or time on the affected feature(s), and more.

Re: How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

#35

Post by freehunter »

lchelak wrote: post #22
munirusman wrote: post #3

The key is to divide your milestones in very small tasks in hours and communicate this detailed hourly plan with your total estimate. Update your manager/client about your progress as frequently as possible. Twice a week if not daily. During the project, if you realize that your estimates were originally wrong, fix it asap and communicate immediately. Frequent communication is the key.

This is horrible advice.

Why? Can you elaborate on why you feel that way and what you feel would be better advice?

Re: How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

#36

Post by gxs »

edw519 wrote: post #15

How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate? Immediately, with brutal honesty, and positively. 1. Immediately: Never delay communication. Most people will be less upset about the schedule than the fact that they weren't informed. 2. With Brutal Honesty: Explain exactly what's going on. You may end up with a pleasant surprise. "Oh, can we just have xyz then?" or "How can we reduce the scope?" or " How can we h…

Product Manager at a Fortune 500 technology company here. Definitely agree that this is the right answer.

In particular step 3. You will get all of this, some of this, and none of this, is an especially good approach.

Part of your Product Manager/Product Owner's job is to educate stakeholders that you are giving them capacity - not deadlines. Once this education is in place it's easier to have these conversations.

On a sidenote, this is part of what makes Agile so effective. It gives you a framework to have these discussions.

Re: How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

#37

Post by captain_crabs »

edw519 wrote: post #15

How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate? Immediately, with brutal honesty, and positively. 1. Immediately: Never delay communication. Most people will be less upset about the schedule than the fact that they weren't informed. 2. With Brutal Honesty: Explain exactly what's going on. You may end up with a pleasant surprise. "Oh, can we just have xyz then?" or "How can we reduce the scope?" or " How can we h…

You're the fucking man or woman

Re: How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

#39

Post by munirusman »

ThomaszKrueger wrote: post #30
munirusman wrote: post #3

The key is to divide your milestones in very small tasks in hours and communicate this detailed hourly plan with your total estimate. Update your manager/client about your progress as frequently as possible. Twice a week if not daily. During the project, if you realize that your estimates were originally wrong, fix it asap and communicate immediately. Frequent communication is the key.

How do you account for the hours you spend "communicating", and will there be hours left for real work?

It doesn't take much time if we use right tools. I've found Asana really good for task management with your team. As software dev, all you have to do is to tick completed tasks or write short comment if you are missing deadline for an individual tasks.

Also, committing code multiple times a day with meaningful comments also helps.

Re: How do you communicate if you won't hit an estimate?

#40

Post by anthonye »

munirusman wrote: post #39
ThomaszKrueger wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you account for the hours you spend "communicating", and will there be hours left for real work?

It doesn't take much time if we use right tools. I've found Asana really good for task management with your team. As software dev, all you have to do is to tick completed tasks or write short comment if you are missing deadline for an individual tasks. Also, committing code multiple times a day with meaningful comments also helps.

Any advice for easily communicating with non-technical clients who wouldn't use technical tools?
Post reply on HN