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Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

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Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#121
post #12
post #3

VR porn is a new area with difficult problems to solve.

I think that there's opportunity in teledildonics as well. If it wasn't for it being, well, teledildonics, I'd be interested in pursuing it.

We're doing our part! www.frixion.me

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO the problem is not that men "don't appreciate a woman's pleasure" - that is some serious bullshit in my opinion. Most men love it when their SO enjoys sex. The problem (to me) is the criminalization of porn and prostitution in the US. Just think about what kind of outrage it would cause if Stripe had a single prostitute or porn website use their service to receive payments. (For the sake of argument assume the p…

As someone who is trying to a create a new, unique, non-janky, adult website I have learned a lot in the last 10 months. And I have never worked in this industry so it has been a serious learning experience. The biggest issue for me has been the banks. My assumption is that Stripe and other players would be "ok" accepting payments from "High Risk" merchants. But they cannot, their partner bank will not allow it. I la…

The banks LOVE adult high risk. The discount rates, the volume, the transaction fees are very seductive. If the banks could wholly control their own destinies, they’d all be processing adult online transactions—with joy and abandon.

The big BUT is that they fear retribution from the card schemes (Visa & Mastercard). Either of them can and do impose enormous penalties on the banks when they exceed the card schemes’ chargeback thressholds. Worse, they can ban the banks from issuing cards with their logos. This would be catastrophic for any bank.

Parenthetically, I was contacted by a bank recently, requesting that I remove a hentai scene that referenced 'pointy ears' (think Mr. Spock) in the meta data. Pointy ears, they said, was a feature of a 'hybrid human'. Hybrid humans having sex with humans, they said, was bestiality. And Visa would not process payments for anything promoting bestiality. This is just one illustration of how paranoid they are.

So that’s the rub on the processing side, but there are many, many banks that will board adult online merchants, in both the US and the EU. As well, there are numerous IPSPs (Internet Payment Service Providers) for adult merchants, ideal for companies just starting out, or companies not interested in sacrificing time and energy managing a private merchant account.

On the settlement side, that’s a new issue.

Banks are less and less keen to open business checking accounts for adult online merchants. They’re nervous about these transactions settling to one of their accounts.

This is largely the result of paranoia about new banking regulations in the wake of the mortgage-backed securities debacle. They are now (rightfully) under a great deal of scrutiny from regulators which translates to onerous judgement calls from banks.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a really enlightening article on the challenges that "adult" startups face when they try to do things the legitimate way[0] (as opposed to using underhanded, duplicitous, and/or legally questionable tactics). It's rather sad that these startups are essentially punished for not wanting to deceive their business partners about what they do. It sheds a lot of light on why the adult industry ends up with a rather…

Hey there! I'm the writer of that article. Thank you for sharing it and I'm glad you found it enlightening. I like to call those of us in the industry that put out great tech, operate on open communication and transparency, and don't cheat systems or customers as next-generation adult companies. It is a difficult road to take given the obstacles in the way, but that's also why it's exciting as an entrepreneur. If it…

Nailed it, Jen. I think there are enough sextech startups cropping up to prove that things can be done differently. The industry has a storied past. That doesn't have to remain the norm.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#124
post #33

The guys I know in the industry are mostly on the bleeding edge of stream tech both hardware and software. The sheer size of the industry in proportion to the entire internet means that some giant portion of all IT in the world work in the space. The guys I know all communicate in private communities though, and not for the taboo reason but because the industry is overtly hostile and aggressive towards competitors. T…

I think it's also about the taboo. You can't go to the police and say "Some site is stealing my porn!" without getting laughed at.

I agree that the taboo exist. But I would suggest that the AE industry is one of the most aggressive litigators in entertainment, I don't think they are afraid to use the courts.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#125
Great stream of comments, I figured I would weigh in with our experience.

I founded Revel Body (www.revelbody.com) with the goal of using our new vibration motors to build better vibrators. We have been working on increasing the sensation and versatility of our products (more power and a broader range of vibrations than existing products) and removing the drawbacks of noise, reliability, numbness, etc. Right now we build and sell the most powerful, quiet and reliable battery-powered vibrator on the market. It is strong enough for muscle massage and can do things like create underwater suction and vibration (using the backside).

Unlike a lot of brands in the 'sex toy' world, our branding and design aesthetic are purposely designed to be clean, healthy and accessible. We focus on health and wellness as a way to enable consumers to buy and try our product. We want to remove barriers from people trying our products. We believe that the industry could double in size if people we not embarrassed to buy these products, so we are focusing on enabling that. We need to remove stigma, give people permission, etc. Focusing on the many almost endless medical benefits of regular orgasm is our focus right now.

These products are about as intimate a product as anyone can use, but they tend to be called 'sex toys'. This does not do justice to some of the better products our there, but probably is good for cheaper/mass market items. Toys are cheap and do not do anything important, and these are not just for sex in the traditional sense. Some brands are starting to use 'pleasure product', but we are looking for a new name for a high quality category of products like we build. Personal Appliance is too bulky. I would love if someone could put together a new for this category of product which really captures what these products can do.

We launched on Indiegogo, because the biggest crowd funding site would not allow 'sexual' related products. We blew past our goals nicely, but do not think kickstarter will come around and allow other sexual related products.

Unlike other sexual products, we have had good success at raising equity capital. We have done three small rounds which closed very fast and we ended up leaving many investors on the outside. I think our experience was different because we had a technology disruption story that made sense as well as being able to point out the many ways in which the industry is mainstreaming and growing rapidly. These points create a path for a company that can disrupt and industry as well as lead the charge to make it mainstream, which will lead to a great exit when a big consumer product is looking to enter this industry (they will want the best brand and technology). Other companies like Crave (raised $2.4M to angels), and Pipedream and Peekay show that mainstream PE money is entering this space.

There are ways to position companies for investment if you understand how investors view these kinds of investments; they are looking for an exit based return and to be part of something cool. Think of what kind of company would be bought (build versus buy decision). On being part of a cool startup, I think it is difficult to imagine better cocktail party talk than being part of a disruptive vibrator company. Companies in this space will probably do better with angel investors than with VCs, many VCs are funded by institutional funds which limit investment into 'morally questionable' activities (think fun stuff like sex, drugs, tobacco, rock and roll).

Like other sexual start-ups, we have had a lot of issues with other companies not wanting to do business with us because our sexual nature or association/proximity to porn start-ups. This includes banks, merchant accounts, advertisers (Facebook included), retargeting ads, etc. It is ridiculous but if you plan for it, you can work around it.

Lots of interesting things going on here...

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#126

I'm delighted you ask that question! I can tell you that there are plenty of us, but that as #sextech entrepreneurs we fight a battle every day to build our startups. Every piece of business infrastructure any other startup can at least take for granted, we can't, because the small print always says 'No adult content'. This is me and other #sextech founders interviewed about this by Fast Company: http://www.fastcompa…

Thank you so much for all the information you've provided Cindy, I was not expecting this much of a response. I basically got nothing on Reddit.

I'm going to study everything in this thread and use it for my startup. I have some ideas of how human sexuality can be explored through using technology without losing our humanity. Hopefully, we can all change the perception of porn and the dynamics of the industry.

I will post again in due time. :)

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#127

What are you looking for, innovative content delivery, production style, search technology, payment schemes? What problems for example? All the main video sites you go to are startups that are trying to innovate and make money. Porn is a very competitive industry. Pornhub and redtube for example are innovative startups it's just hard to amit it to ourselves because they are peddling smut.

I just wanted a general picture of where the boundaries are being pushed in the industry. I have some ideas that came to me unexpectedly and now I want to realize them. I just need to learn about the industry from end-to-end.

I'm VERY familiar with all the tube sites, torrent sites, and most major studios. I was 13 when I got DSL, I'm 24 today. I think I've hit the 10,000 hour mark in fapping by now.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What merchants are those? I've read through many acceptable use policies and haven't seen "No Adult Content" yet. Thanks! edit:s/man/many/

I actually would prefer not to name names because am in discussions to get over that hump...but I've unfortunately encountered this in several.

First of all, sorry if I was really rude, I didn't mean that. "complaint" would be a better word instead of "cry". Sometimes my poor english embarrass me.

It's terrible, the philosophy behind the cryptocurrency would support your freedom to trade your values.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What merchants are those? I've read through many acceptable use policies and haven't seen "No Adult Content" yet. Thanks! edit:s/man/many/

I actually would prefer not to name names because am in discussions to get over that hump...but I've unfortunately encountered this in several.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Are there any innovative startups in the porn/adult industry?

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is trying to a create a new, unique, non-janky, adult website I have learned a lot in the last 10 months. And I have never worked in this industry so it has been a serious learning experience. The biggest issue for me has been the banks. My assumption is that Stripe and other players would be "ok" accepting payments from "High Risk" merchants. But they cannot, their partner bank will not allow it. I la…

I know you've probably learned this already from your experience, but for other readers: The (possibly) surprising thing here is that banks aren't moralizing here. You can walk into any adult bookstore and pay with a regular old credit card just fine, thank you. Visa and Mastercard are not averse to allowing you to pay for porn. The reason why banks and credit card companies don't want to be involved with online porn…

yep--ditto for online gaming (eg, online poker, casino, sportsbook). The chargeback rate is outrageous--thought i put the decimal in the wrong place first time i prepared a monthly report. The credit card owner of course claims fraud--ie, someone stole his credit card data & played online poker and lost a fortune all on an account liked to the poor guy's visa. As anyone can guess, a large fraction of this cases are 'remorse fraud'--ie, the card holder had began losing, kept playing and kept losing and panicked at what his wife will do when she sees the $5,000 partypoker charge on his card, he does some research, learns that a "CNP" transaction has certain protections, and in this case means the he can blame someone else and the merchant has to prove otherwise.
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