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My First Keyboard Build

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Re: My First Keyboard Build

#61

Post by jacobolus »

zck wrote: post #38

If you're interested in soldering together a keyboard, but not having to design everything from scratch, it's worth checking out the Ergodox: http://ergodox.org/ . I built one a month ago, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's a two-piece keyboard with straight key columns, and six buttons for each thumb. You can order the parts on massdrop, when they start another order: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox It's…

I’m hoping we can get this up for manufacturing as an Ergodox alternative/replacement sometime in the next few months: http://i.imgur.com/puH1Ge4.jpg

It’s the middle version here (background outlines show comparison with the standard Ergodox): http://i.imgur.com/l0REgJh.png

In practice, the increased stagger on the finger columns means that the most comfortable hand orientation is slightly straighter compared to the ergodox, so this is probably a better comparison drawing: http://i.imgur.com/OqSwVJo.png

Re: My First Keyboard Build

#62

Post by scottjad »

ljk wrote: post #50
zck wrote: post #38

If you're interested in soldering together a keyboard, but not having to design everything from scratch, it's worth checking out the Ergodox: http://ergodox.org/ . I built one a month ago, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's a two-piece keyboard with straight key columns, and six buttons for each thumb. You can order the parts on massdrop, when they start another order: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox It's…

Are you familiar with the Kinesis Advantage keyboards? The keys are also separated into two sections but sitting on one keyboard, but no DIY needed. I just started using one recently, but never used ErgoDox before, and wanted to see if anyone has any experience with using both of them.

Anandtech reviewed both keyboards maybe a year ago and preferred the Kinesis Advantage FWIW. You could checkout their reviews to see why.

Re: My First Keyboard Build

#64

Post by slantyyz »

userbinator wrote: post #17

if anyone doing a hand-wired build has a better/more efficient method of making the cables for the columns, please let me know Use self-fluxing enameled wire. It's insulated with an enamel that melts/converts into flux at soldering temperatures, so all you need to do is wrap a turn around the post of each switch contact for a column, then add solder to complete the connection. Some are sold in a convenient pencil-sha…

>> 160WPM+

Wow! I am guessing you're not using a QWERTY layout to do that. What layout are you using? Dvorak?

Re: My First Keyboard Build

#65

Post by zck »

ljk wrote: post #50
zck wrote: post #38

If you're interested in soldering together a keyboard, but not having to design everything from scratch, it's worth checking out the Ergodox: http://ergodox.org/ . I built one a month ago, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's a two-piece keyboard with straight key columns, and six buttons for each thumb. You can order the parts on massdrop, when they start another order: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox It's…

Are you familiar with the Kinesis Advantage keyboards? The keys are also separated into two sections but sitting on one keyboard, but no DIY needed. I just started using one recently, but never used ErgoDox before, and wanted to see if anyone has any experience with using both of them.

Yes, I tried that for a while, and didn't like it. Here's why:

1. It has Cherry MX Browns. I like more clickiness.

2. I found the curved alignment of the keys annoying. The thumb keys also felt off, but I don't recall how.

3. The remapping support for Kinesis is far inferior to Ergodox's. When I talked to tech support, they recommended using macros rather than remapping keys. This is because switching from Qwerty to Dvorak wipes any key remappings. Certainly I don't want to risk losing my keyboard layout, so macros are the way to go. But there's a maximum of 48 macros that can be stored, so you could only remap 48 keys. That's probably an acceptable limit if you don't need a bunch of extra macros. However, having a lot of macros means you might lose keystrokes^1. Compare this to the Ergodox, which lets you place any key anywhere with no downside other than your memory and ergonomics. You can also have multiple key layouts, and switch between them easily.

4. I was trying to switch to the Kinesis while at work, making it more frustrating when I was slow. I switched to the Ergodox at home, so I had more time. I also got the Ergodox after I tried the Kinesis, so some of the muscle memory was already entrenched when I got the Ergodox.

5. I borrowed the Kinesis, but bought and assembled the Ergodox. This means I was more invested in liking the Ergodox, whether or not it was actually better.

[1] http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/support/technical-support/faqs-a... , the section "How do I switch between the macro memory configurations of 24, 36, or 48 macros?" states "Fast typists will often lose keystrokes from certain common words with the 48 macro setting, and very fast typists may even lose keystrokes using the 36 macro setting."

Re: My First Keyboard Build

#66

Post by deckiedan »

gurgus wrote: post #9
audunw wrote: post #8

If I were to build a keyboard I would definitely take a couple of ideas from typematrix. First of all, staggered keys make absolutely no sense(unles it's actually a typewriter). It takes a week to get used to a straight layout, and it feels more natural. It's not a problem to switch between staggered and matrix layouts either. Second thing I would copy is having enter and backspace between the two halves of the keybo…

Thanks! A guy at my work has the typematrix keyboard - I like the idea but wasn't daring enough to go balls-to-the-wall and actually take that layout. He seems to like it, though!

I have one at home that I use as my daily keyboard. It's pretty cool. One very nice thing is how quiet it is, especially with a 'skin' on it.

One thing I really don't like about it is the lack of utilisation of the thumbs. I've been getting pain in (especially) my left thumb joint. I believe it's due to having to curl my thumb in to get to the meta / alt / windows keys.

This was really bad on my work Microsoft keyboard, but isn't great on my typematrix either.

I just got a second hand Kinesis Advantage keyboard for work, and really really like the thumb sections, and also the remapping support. In less than a week my thumb pain has cleared up quite a lot.

I also really wish that the two sections on the typematrix were angled a bit outwards. It seems to work OK, since it's in rows it's a lot better than normal keyboards, but I feel that being able to spread my hands apart would be a good thing.

I really really like the remapping support on the Kinesis advantage.

I'm using the workman keyboard layout ( http://workmanlayout.com/ ) which seems to work very well for me. The biggest downside is the lack of native support for it. On the Advantage, I remapped it in about 45 seconds total, and now that keyboard works anywhere I plug it in, without needing any setup.

Otherwise, though, I'm pretty happy with my typematrix. My wrist angles are waaay better than they ever were on a normal staggered qwerty keyboard. And it's so quiet I can type while my wife and baby are asleep on the couch right next to me without disturbing them. That certainly wasn't the case with my MS keyboards.

I also really like how little desktop space it takes up - the mouse is now a lot closer and doesn't need a huge reach over to the side to pick up.

Re: My First Keyboard Build

#67

Post by userbinator »

slantyyz wrote: post #64
userbinator wrote: post #17

if anyone doing a hand-wired build has a better/more efficient method of making the cables for the columns, please let me know Use self-fluxing enameled wire. It's insulated with an enamel that melts/converts into flux at soldering temperatures, so all you need to do is wrap a turn around the post of each switch contact for a column, then add solder to complete the connection. Some are sold in a convenient pencil-sha…

>> 160WPM+ Wow! I am guessing you're not using a QWERTY layout to do that. What layout are you using? Dvorak?

Actually it is a standard QWERTY keyboard, with rubber dome switches but this one happens to have a much lower actuation force and distance than most switches, with a soft, cushion-like springy feel at the bottom. Someone used to "better quality" keyboards such as mechanical ones would probably find the keys too loose and wobbly, but I've found that the loose feeling helps when you just want the keys to go down as quickly as possible, since at those speeds it's more a process of hitting keys without conscious thought and hoping they register rather than trying to sense their feedback.

I have tried mechanical keyboards, and for the longest time I used a clicky one with blue ALPS switches, which has a nice tactile response to the keys, but was not able to exceed ~130WPM with it - the clicking was actually distracting and I felt like I was waiting to feel the key switches actuate before moving on...

(Many of the fastest typists on TypeRacer and one of the well-known, Sean Wrona, use QWERTY so I don't think it's a big disadvantage in terms of speed.)

Re: My First Keyboard Build

#68

Post by slantyyz »

userbinator wrote: post #67
slantyyz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> 160WPM+ Wow! I am guessing you're not using a QWERTY layout to do that. What layout are you using? Dvorak?

Actually it is a standard QWERTY keyboard, with rubber dome switches but this one happens to have a much lower actuation force and distance than most switches, with a soft, cushion-like springy feel at the bottom. Someone used to "better quality" keyboards such as mechanical ones would probably find the keys too loose and wobbly, but I've found that the loose feeling helps when you just want the keys to go down as qu…

That's interesting - I have an outdated notion that QWERTY was a hindrance to speed. This was based on stuff I read in the 80s-- this was way back when the Apple //c came out and offered an option to use either Sholes or Dvorak.

I find your choice of rubber dome very interesting. I learned how to type with an IBM typewriter, and moved on to the Apple Extended Keyboards in the early 90s. I recently thought I wanted a keyboard with Cherry MX Reds (I found the clickier MXes too jarring on my fingers), but after years of getting used to and liking the Apple chiclet keyboards, I found that I just couldn't get used to the feel of a mechanical keyboard again. I ended up getting a dome keyboard instead.

Re: My First Keyboard Build

#69

Post by tr4656 »

zck wrote: post #38

If you're interested in soldering together a keyboard, but not having to design everything from scratch, it's worth checking out the Ergodox: http://ergodox.org/ . I built one a month ago, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's a two-piece keyboard with straight key columns, and six buttons for each thumb. You can order the parts on massdrop, when they start another order: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox It's…

In addition to the Ergodox, Massdrop has another keyboard that requires soldering available right now, which resembles the shape of the HHKB.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-keyboard-kit

Re: My First Keyboard Build

#70

Post by emptybits »

ljk wrote: post #50
zck wrote: post #38

If you're interested in soldering together a keyboard, but not having to design everything from scratch, it's worth checking out the Ergodox: http://ergodox.org/ . I built one a month ago, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's a two-piece keyboard with straight key columns, and six buttons for each thumb. You can order the parts on massdrop, when they start another order: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox It's…

Are you familiar with the Kinesis Advantage keyboards? The keys are also separated into two sections but sitting on one keyboard, but no DIY needed. I just started using one recently, but never used ErgoDox before, and wanted to see if anyone has any experience with using both of them.

I use a Kinesis Freestyle with wrist rests, split, tilted up toward the centre, with an Apple Magic Trackpad elevated and sitting tightly between the two halves. I enjoy this setup very much.
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