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Safari is sending every search query to Apple

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Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#81

Post by mikeash »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #75
declan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, the Github page says search terms in their tests were sent to Apple's API even "with all privacy options enabled": https://github.com/fix-macosx/yosemite-phone-home

Yeah, Spotlight privacy options. He didn't touch Safari's; I did, and I got the same as cmelbye. To be honest, I feel like Landon found something that confirmed what he already suspected, and ran with it, rather than taking a moment to look at what he had (which is wrong). That makes me wonder about his goals, since I've been watching his work play out over the last few days. Why is the sky falling, again?

Maybe he did touch Safari's, but foolishly only looked in the "Privacy" section of Safari's preferences, rather than in the "Search" section where any normal person would know the privacy-related settings are actually found.

OK, that's highly sarcastic, but I just went looking for these options and was gobsmacked to discover that no relevant options were present under Privacy.

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#82

Post by jsmthrowaway »

bo1024 wrote: post #77
cmelbye wrote: post #61

This is inaccurate alarmism. It shouldn't be surprising that the search bar makes autocomplete requests to Apple as you type. The address, phone number, and map link that popped up when you typed in the name of a local business, for example, didn't just appear out of thin air. However, it seemed suspicious to me that Apple would make it impossible, as the author claims, to type in the Safari address bar without sendi…

It's not at all inaccurate. Might be alarmism, I don't know. But I think it just demonstrates the ways in which users' expectations about privacy are mismatched with the products they use. For example, your average non-tech-savvy user would never realize that an important privacy setting is in a search setting marked "suggestions". It's hard to say more without seeing the text of Apple's Privacy Documentation that is…

> For example, your average non-tech-savvy user would never realize that an important privacy setting is in a search setting marked "suggestions".

Is this not clear enough?

http://i.imgur.com/i1Zq3E4.png

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#83

Post by scintill76 »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #75
declan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, the Github page says search terms in their tests were sent to Apple's API even "with all privacy options enabled": https://github.com/fix-macosx/yosemite-phone-home

Yeah, Spotlight privacy options. He didn't touch Safari's; I did, and I got the same as cmelbye. To be honest, I feel like Landon found something that confirmed what he already suspected, and ran with it, rather than taking a moment to look at what he had (which is wrong). That makes me wonder about his goals, since I've been watching his work play out over the last few days. Why is the sky falling, again?

If true, this is worth noting, but I don't think it completely redeems Apple. "We're going to make you untick as many boxes as possible, scattered through several dialogs, if you want to feel secure in the knowledge that your data won't be phoned home, no matter which particular place you're entering them."

(Disclaimer: I'm generally anti-Apple and haven't used this version of the OS.)

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#84

Post by cscurmudgeon »

mikeash wrote: post #78
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weekly Outrage Time on HN. Have any of the commentors used the latest Safari? Safari does not passively collect data. It is doing much more. It has what can be called search actions. Example Type in a Nissan dealer's name => Brings up with an Icon a clicky that would take you to the nearest Nissan dealer location on Maps. Type in wiki X => Brings up with wiki page for X. Pray tell how would they accomplish without pr…

Who's assuming something nefarious is happening? I find it odd how quickly Apple defenders jump to "let's not assume they're evil" in these cases, when no speculation on motivation is presented. I personally don't care about motivation. I'm not even sure that a large company like Apple can meaningfully have motivations the way that we as individual humans think of them. All that matters is what they do.

Why do you assume that I assume that you are assuming something?

Where did you get that?

Why do you label me as an Apple defender?

Tell me how would Apple provide this feature without sending data back?

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#85

Post by [deleted] »

scintill76 wrote: post #83
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Spotlight privacy options. He didn't touch Safari's; I did, and I got the same as cmelbye. To be honest, I feel like Landon found something that confirmed what he already suspected, and ran with it, rather than taking a moment to look at what he had (which is wrong). That makes me wonder about his goals, since I've been watching his work play out over the last few days. Why is the sky falling, again?

If true, this is worth noting, but I don't think it completely redeems Apple. "We're going to make you untick as many boxes as possible, scattered through several dialogs, if you want to feel secure in the knowledge that your data won't be phoned home, no matter which particular place you're entering them." (Disclaimer: I'm generally anti-Apple and haven't used this version of the OS.)

[deleted]

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#86

Post by threeseed »

scintill76 wrote: post #83
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Spotlight privacy options. He didn't touch Safari's; I did, and I got the same as cmelbye. To be honest, I feel like Landon found something that confirmed what he already suspected, and ran with it, rather than taking a moment to look at what he had (which is wrong). That makes me wonder about his goals, since I've been watching his work play out over the last few days. Why is the sky falling, again?

If true, this is worth noting, but I don't think it completely redeems Apple. "We're going to make you untick as many boxes as possible, scattered through several dialogs, if you want to feel secure in the knowledge that your data won't be phoned home, no matter which particular place you're entering them." (Disclaimer: I'm generally anti-Apple and haven't used this version of the OS.)

What on earth are you talking about ?

The preferences aren't scattered through several dialogs. It's simply open Safari, goto Preferences, click on Search tab and uncheck the requisite Smart Search feature.

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#87

Post by threeseed »

mikeash wrote: post #81
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Spotlight privacy options. He didn't touch Safari's; I did, and I got the same as cmelbye. To be honest, I feel like Landon found something that confirmed what he already suspected, and ran with it, rather than taking a moment to look at what he had (which is wrong). That makes me wonder about his goals, since I've been watching his work play out over the last few days. Why is the sky falling, again?

Maybe he did touch Safari's, but foolishly only looked in the "Privacy" section of Safari's preferences, rather than in the "Search" section where any normal person would know the privacy-related settings are actually found. OK, that's highly sarcastic, but I just went looking for these options and was gobsmacked to discover that no relevant options were present under Privacy.

Why would you look under Privacy ?

Sending my search term to Apple which then simply does a back end aggregated search and returns the results does not invade my privacy. Unless of course you have some evidence that Apple is collecting those search terms.

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#88

Post by mikeash »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #84
mikeash wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's assuming something nefarious is happening? I find it odd how quickly Apple defenders jump to "let's not assume they're evil" in these cases, when no speculation on motivation is presented. I personally don't care about motivation. I'm not even sure that a large company like Apple can meaningfully have motivations the way that we as individual humans think of them. All that matters is what they do.

Why do you assume that I assume that you are assuming something? Where did you get that? Why do you label me as an Apple defender? Tell me how would Apple provide this feature without sending data back?

You said, "But let us not assume something nefarious is happening."

Why even bring that up unless you think somebody might assume nefariousness?

Why do I label you as an Apple defender? Because... you're defending... Apple.... Is this a trick question?

How would Apple provide this feature without sending data? I don't see how that's a relevant question. You imply that it's OK for them to do this as long as it's necessary for the feature. I disagree. The feature doesn't have to be implemented. It doesn't have to be turned on by default if it is implemented. And if implemented and turned on by default, they could do a much better job of telling you about the implications and telling you how to turn it off.

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#89

Post by ajross »

jonym wrote: post #45

Disabling "Include Spotlight Suggestions" in Safari Preferences seems to make it stop.

FTA: In Yosemite, all Safari web searches are sent to not only the search engine you've selected (e.g., Google, DuckDuckGo), but also to Apple, even if you've disabled "Spotlight Suggestions"

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#90

Post by [deleted] »

cmelbye wrote: post #61

This is inaccurate alarmism. It shouldn't be surprising that the search bar makes autocomplete requests to Apple as you type. The address, phone number, and map link that popped up when you typed in the name of a local business, for example, didn't just appear out of thin air. However, it seemed suspicious to me that Apple would make it impossible, as the author claims, to type in the Safari address bar without sendi…

[deleted]
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