[deleted]
Shall we fork Debian?
31–40 of 284 posts
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#32How does forking Debian solve anything? The issue is that Gnome, KDE, and other software requires systemd. You need to fix/maintain their compatibility with other init systems. Then it is easy for Debian user to switch init systems.
> The issue is that Gnome, KDE, and other software requires systemd. This I can't wrap my head around, why does Gnome for example need systemd? There are standard ways on GNU/Linux to do everything it needs in a unix fashion (by deferring to small specialized tools): shutdown reboot whoami uname mount ... These and similar tools (or libc functions) give you all information you need (username, etc.) and system functio…
Systemd provides interfaces to reboot/shutdown as non root api which is controlled by polkit. It also allows a non root process running as part of an active session to get the DRM FD and other device FDs as part of the logind interface.
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#33Or just shut up and put your efforts into maintaining https://packages.debian.org/jessie/systemd-shim Also, critique starts with "We like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable".. How on earth is a systemd service file less readable then a hundreds of lines bash script? Also relevant: http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/65684-deb...
Your attitude is exactly the problem. "Shut up and do what I say" is exactly what systemd is about.
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#34>SystemD betrays the UNIX Philosophy
Not so convinced by this. "Those days are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl." -- Rob Pike
Systemd in debian would have an easier time making friends if it didn't usurp PID1 for roles that are currently outside PID1, and if it didn't encourage software which is currently init-system agnostic to grow a dependency on a specific init-system implementation.
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#35Do people not have better things to do with their time? It doesn't make sense.
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#36Looks like the Squeeze LTS project[1] could use some help[2] and the team proposing a fork are server type folk reading between the lines. Good fit of skill sets and a way of generating positive outcomes quickly to build confidence? So fork from squeeze forward updating strategic packages?
PS: I love the 'how long are your beards?' line. Obviously, I'd rather Debian didn't fork and that we kept choice for server people in one of the larger Linux distros just on an 'ecological diversity' basis.
You can do a window manager on top of X with systemv right now in Jessie [3], the '--no-install-recommends' option to apt-get is helpful. But the result will be seriously old-school. Its rather fun for surfing in cafes and wasting time on forums but for my day to day work (not programming) I prefer a full fat desktop like KDE/Gnome.
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2014/msg00...
[2] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTc4NTE
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#37Or just shut up and put your efforts into maintaining https://packages.debian.org/jessie/systemd-shim Also, critique starts with "We like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable".. How on earth is a systemd service file less readable then a hundreds of lines bash script? Also relevant: http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/65684-deb...
And if that service file screws up how do you troubleshoot it? You end up diving in to the source code of systemd, versus fixing a bug in your script.
And don't get me started on binary log files.
As was said before, buster, your attitude is the problem. It's the same as the systemd developers and those within the community.
SysVInit has served me thus far with no issues.
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#38Or just shut up and put your efforts into maintaining https://packages.debian.org/jessie/systemd-shim Also, critique starts with "We like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable".. How on earth is a systemd service file less readable then a hundreds of lines bash script? Also relevant: http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/65684-deb...
Your attitude is exactly the problem. "Shut up and do what I say" is exactly what systemd is about.
I read the 'shut up' line in the post above yours as more along the lines of 'do something useful, post bugs, show some commitment' rather than 'shut up systemd is the Only Way'.
Perhaps the sponsors of the linked site are doing bug reports on packages like systemd-shim and others. Perhaps the upstream project members involved are ensuring that they have init scripts for systemv available. They could add a question with links along those lines easily.
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#39Or just shut up and put your efforts into maintaining https://packages.debian.org/jessie/systemd-shim Also, critique starts with "We like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable".. How on earth is a systemd service file less readable then a hundreds of lines bash script? Also relevant: http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/65684-deb...
And if that service file screws up how do you troubleshoot it? You end up diving in to the source code of systemd, versus fixing a bug in your script. And don't get me started on binary log files. As was said before, buster, your attitude is the problem. It's the same as the systemd developers and those within the community. SysVInit has served me thus far with no issues.
Just curious, have you ever used systemd and ran into a problem where your service file screwed up and you had yo read systemd's source code or are you making this up?
Re: Shall we fork Debian?
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
And if that service file screws up how do you troubleshoot it? You end up diving in to the source code of systemd, versus fixing a bug in your script. And don't get me started on binary log files. As was said before, buster, your attitude is the problem. It's the same as the systemd developers and those within the community. SysVInit has served me thus far with no issues.
Just curious, have you ever used systemd and ran into a problem where your service file screwed up and you had yo read systemd's source code or are you making this up?
Experience from a few years back. Bug was fixed and all, but left a bad taste in my mouth.