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On Elitism

stanford.edu

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Re: On Elitism

#51

Post by jgrant27 »

scott_s wrote: post #33
gizmo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not by definition, because the definition of success at school isn't "getting high grades". School is not the end, it's only a means. If I had to give a single metric for success at school it would be 'education'; those who learn more are more successful at school. This isn't necessarily reflected by test scores.

It's the metric that is used to judge academic success. Really, all of this is besides the point that the author was trying to make. You're getting caught up in his example, but ignoring his point. Grades are a metric of a kind of success. I agree that education is more important than grades, but that's not what the example was about.

That metric has long been flawed.

Re: On Elitism

#52

Post by jgrant27 »

zackattack wrote: post #42
daveying99 wrote: post #36

I think the guy has some smart points. But the fact that he has the MIT dome picture on his blog counters the point that if you're a high achiever from a top-tiered university, you don't need to show external signs of achievement...

I imagine that when you go to a place like MIT where life is like "getting kicked in the balls repeatedly", your alma mater becomes an important part of your identity.

This gave me a good laugh !

These same people also tend to bring this mind set with them to wherever it is they end up working. They seem to have a huge need to "kick others in the balls repeatedly" to feel better than others.

Have you ever noticed how no matter what topic(it could even be about fingernail clippings) is being discussed with these types the conversation almost always degrades into them having to make repeated points to prove that they are right and you are wrong. Apparently this indoctrinated part of their identity is what they call 'education'. I guess they also need this to justify the 100-200k of debt they have after graduation and the calls they will receive for the rest of their life from their alma mater each year for donations.

Re: On Elitism

#53

Post by Schtarflucz »

psyklic wrote: post #35

The author writes about himself, "Coming from two universities with world-renowned Computer Science departments (MIT and Stanford) and having worked at a top-tier software company (Google) as well as at several less high-profile companies ..." Meaning, of course, that he is not elitist -- he just had to share these crucial facts about himself.

An elitist disses people who he considers inferior to himself. Stating that you are Among the elites doesn't make you an elitist.

Re: On Elitism

#54

Post by elblanco »

elblanco wrote: post #38
tokenadult wrote: post #2

The blogger doth protest too much, methinks. We learn all about his academic credentials almost as soon as the blog post begins, but don't hear anything about his real-world accomplishments beyond attending great schools. What does everyone think of the blogger's academics page? http://www.stanford.edu/~pgbovine/academic.htm Disclaimer: I don't know the blogger, and as far as I know I don't know any of his profession…

He's on the fast path to a research job, buried in the bowels of some company, working on middle ware. Either that or he'll simply get a teaching job at one of the schools he decries in his post.

Feel free to downvote, but at least bother to type some reasoning. The number of tier-1 PhD grads that end up in teaching posts at state schools is pretty tremendous.

And as anyone who reads this site knows, good schooling != life/work experience.

Unless Mr. Guo changes his attitude a bit, he's unlikely to find success outside of academia or pure research departments of large companies.

Re: On Elitism

#56

Post by scott_s »

mnemonicsloth wrote: post #49
scott_s wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the metric that is used to judge academic success. Really, all of this is besides the point that the author was trying to make. You're getting caught up in his example, but ignoring his point. Grades are a metric of a kind of success. I agree that education is more important than grades, but that's not what the example was about.

I'm not trying to score rhetorical points here, but it seems like you're trying to change the subject after having one of your unconscious assumptions brought to your attention. Everybody has them, and, er... by definition... nobody is aware of them. Most people try and forget all about them when they do become visible, but is that the ideal reaction?

I feel not that I'm trying to change the subject, but reign it back in.

I assumed people would recognize that what I meant when I said "more successful" in the context of an objective metric like grades. I hoped that pointing out that the author was more concerned about success in a general endeavor than in the specific example he used would clarify the point he tried to make. I was wrong.

Re: On Elitism

#57

Post by scott_s »

elblanco wrote: post #48
elblanco wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for being duped into believing this little lie, Mr. Guo has singularly proven that Stanford folks are not as smart as their reputation makes them out to be.

Downvoted obviously from a Stanford grad.

You're new here, so please read the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: On Elitism

#58

Post by parse_tree »

The author sounds like a real jackass. Who else would be so concerned with the alma mater, "intelligence", or "technical skill" of other people that they feel the need to write an article about it.

Re: On Elitism

#59

Post by Eliezer »

dill_day wrote: post #45

When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you. -- Lao Tzu

  When everybody respects you,  
  Without need for you to compare or compete,  
  You will be content to be simply yourself.
-- Eliezer Yudkowsky (that's right - ELIEZER YUDKOWSKY)

Re: On Elitism

#60

Post by invisible »

What I find truly misleading is that he labels "name-brand universities" as a form of adult elitism. He then goes on to explain that it is actually those that did not attend the best schools that are outwardly elite. I have heard stories of name-brand universities' alumni not even giving those outside of the best schools the time of day.

Perhaps there is a cockiness to those that strive to prove themselves beyond grades and diplomas. Sure. However, I'd heavily argue that this is not elitism. Elitism requires grouping with those of similar backgrounds (e.g. Harvard, Yale, MIT, whatever). You cannot be an elitist unless you claim alumni from only your school - or brand of schools - are better than others. The author does mention that he went to a FEW prestigious schools and so doesn't follow his own advice on the matter.

(Elitism can also be displayed by a position that only wealthy are better [1]. This unfortunately may plague these so-called name brand schools.)

So, go be cocky and stop name dropping your prestigious university (or giving said university/universities more weight). Then you'll stop being an elitist, but you might just improve your former school's brand...

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism

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