Elon musk has so much money, why can't he just be his own lobbyist instead of getting his fanboys on this. I have no stake in this.
A Raw Deal in Michigan
161–170 of 201 posts
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#162The funny thing is that Michigan's legislature is run by yokel conservatives who made a big show of becoming a "right to work" state (i.e. making it illegal to have mandatory all-union workplaces) - when corporate interests and Fox News talking points were at stake, they were remarkably eager to thump their chests about free association.
wut? in what world does "free association" equal "mandatory all-union workplaces"? Just your words.
In what world (just your words) does his comment equate the two?
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#163Tesla wants to have its cake and eat it too. You can't take a 500 million loan from taxpayers ( the vast majority of whom DON'T benefit from and can't afford your product ) and then on the other hand claim unfair treatment by local governments.
Maybe you're forgetting that the auto industry received bailouts that were two orders of magnitude greater than the loan that Tesla took from the government. And, unlike the rest of the auto industry, Tesla paid back its loans, and did so ahead of time.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cold weather performance is trumpeted a lot by EV detractors, but the number one selling new car in Norway last month was the Tesla Model S. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/tesla-norway-idUSL... Here's an interesting interview from Elon Musk about the Tesla battery winter performance. http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/01/interview-with-elon-musk...
From your first link: > "Electric cars have been especially popular in Norway because of generous subsidies, free parking, government-provided re-charging stations, the right to use express lanes on highways and exemptions from tolls." Yeah, Michigan has (almost) none of that. Cold weather battery performance could be ignored here if there were charging stations all over. Sure, there are a handful of charging station…
Winter driving in Norway.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't be too quick to condemn democracy. Granted, most of the propaganda about the vox populi is false. But its key virtue is that it allows change of government without bloodshed. As Popper said, "We are democrats, not because the majority is always right, but because democratic traditions are the least evil ones of which we know". It's not the best system, but it's probably the least bad one.
> But its key virtue is that it allows change of government without bloodshed. This is a strongest point I ever heard in favour of democracy, and ironically, I don't remember ever being taught it in school or see it mentioned often.
It's easily refuted by pointing out the identical nature of the two major parties in the US, in practice if not in platform. It's been demonstrated over and over again that we can't "throw the bums out," because the replacement bums will soon emulate their predecessors.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in Michigan, and was dishearten when I read about this story the other day. But not really that surprised. A few observations: - Tesla isn't a name brand here like Ford or GM. In fact, if you asked a lot of people if we should help the Big Three with this sort of legislation, you might be surprised by the answer. Remember, they generate a LOT of jobs in this state: not just the Big Three, but the tier 2 and ti…
- I haven't seen one media story about this yet, outside of social media. I also live in michigan and both of the major detroit newspapers had this on the front page early this morning [0][1]. - Tesla isn't a name brand here like Ford or GM. In fact, if you asked a lot of people if we should help the Big Three with this sort of legislation, you might be surprised by the answer. Remember, they generate a LOT of jobs i…
Fucking over Tesla = helping the big 3.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in Michigan, and was dishearten when I read about this story the other day. But not really that surprised. A few observations: - Tesla isn't a name brand here like Ford or GM. In fact, if you asked a lot of people if we should help the Big Three with this sort of legislation, you might be surprised by the answer. Remember, they generate a LOT of jobs in this state: not just the Big Three, but the tier 2 and ti…
My retired father-in-law who lives in a suburb of Detroit got a car that was not manufactured by the by the Big Three a couple years ago. He felt so much social pressure that he quickly returned it and got one that was. He told me that some "foreign" cars would be egged in his neighborhood. I put foreign in quotes, as big three cars are not always manufactured in the US and sometimes other cars are manufactured here.…
That is a bunch of BS, this is not Detroit of the 70s, that stuff doesn't happen. People drive foreign cars around just like any other area.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But its key virtue is that it allows change of government without bloodshed. This is a strongest point I ever heard in favour of democracy, and ironically, I don't remember ever being taught it in school or see it mentioned often.
It's easily refuted by pointing out the identical nature of the two major parties in the US, in practice if not in platform. It's been demonstrated over and over again that we can't "throw the bums out," because the replacement bums will soon emulate their predecessors.
I don't think this refutes the essence of this idea, i.e. bloodless transfer of power. Sure that all new politicians end up being like the old ones, but thanks to short terms and established procedures of power transfer politicians don't feel the need of killing their way to the top or violently defending their seats. After all, even if you lose your seat this time, you can get it back in few years.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#169Tesla wants to have its cake and eat it too. You can't take a 500 million loan from taxpayers ( the vast majority of whom DON'T benefit from and can't afford your product ) and then on the other hand claim unfair treatment by local governments.
Maybe you're forgetting that the auto industry received bailouts that were two orders of magnitude greater than the loan that Tesla took from the government. And, unlike the rest of the auto industry, Tesla paid back its loans, and did so ahead of time.
First, that's kind of a strawman. I didn't say that GM's bailout was a good thing, only that Tesla has also taken money from the government ( at its most dire time, I might add; had they not received those loans they'd have been insolvent for sure ). And second, even though Tesla paid back its loans, it doesn't mean the taxpayer benefitted at all from the transaction. Au contraire, by paying back the loans early, Tesla avoided granting the government shares of TSLA, and thus stiffed the taxpayer out of any possible return. I understand everyone in SV wants Tesla to succeed, but it's not the most meritocratic, little-upstart-vs-entrenched-player story their PR would like you to believe.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in a very cold place with weather comparable to Norway. There are lots of problems when it comes to dealing with cars in the winter. I have no doubt that Tesla could be a decent choice for a car, but it makes perfect sense to be a bit wary about electric vehicles manufactured in California sunshine, especially if you don't have a garage to store the car in. In addition to battery life and cabin heating issues,…
> "it makes perfect sense to be a bit wary about electric vehicles manufactured in California sunshine" It makes no more sense than a Florida driver being wary of overheating a car made in Detroit. There may actually be some winter weather technical problems that Tesla has yet to resolve, I honestly don't know. But everything in your post is either speculation or a fallacy called argumentum ad populum [1]. If I were…
At no point did I intend to imply that Tesla is a bad car in the Winter. I've never owned one yet, I don't really know. But as this thread shows, many people do assume so.
Had I really speculated that it really is, you'd be right.
Tesla's challenge in the North is convincing people that it is a car that is reliable even in the winter. This is going to be a harder task than actually making the car reliable in the cold.