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A Raw Deal in Michigan

teslamotors.com

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Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#91

Post by Loughla »

DavidWanjiru wrote: post #57
oatmeal_coffee wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't paint all lobbying with the same brush. There are beneficial lobbying groups out there helping to bring a voice to issues in an arena where they would otherwise normally be drowned out. We just focus on the bad ones because they tend to have greater influence. Absolutist positions such as this are rarely true and sensible.

If the question was whether or not to ban lobbying, how do the benefits of lobbying stack up against the damage? That whole cost-benefit analysis thing...

Lobbying also includes when you call your representative to complain about a certain issue.

So, to ban lobbying outright is to ban input from every citizen to their representative.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#92

Post by Igglyboo »

Shivetya wrote: post #50

Honestly Tesla, STAY OUT OF MICHIGAN. If you refuse to do business with the state, go as far as to discourage people living there form buying them, eventually there could be enough public pressure to bring about a change. If not that, perhaps a few billboards equating the politicians to Neanderthals might work Its time to ignore the states that refuse to play fair, shame them, and perhaps their voters will wake up.

Yea because we should force anyone who wants to break into an established market to pay for a shit ton of marketing and political attack ads! /s

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#93

Post by saturdaysaint »

The funny thing is that Michigan's legislature is run by yokel conservatives who made a big show of becoming a "right to work" state (i.e. making it illegal to have mandatory all-union workplaces) - when corporate interests and Fox News talking points were at stake, they were remarkably eager to thump their chests about free association.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#95

Post by snsr »

oatmeal_coffee wrote: post #66
DavidWanjiru wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the question was whether or not to ban lobbying, how do the benefits of lobbying stack up against the damage? That whole cost-benefit analysis thing...

The question is whether or not to ban lobbying is not a reasonable one, if only because lobbying would not be able to be banned just on a principle of free speech alone. People have a voice—good, bad, whatever—and lobbying provides an efficient means of communicating that voice. The question is rather how to reduce, if not obviate, the damage caused by the role of money in lobbying without violating free speech right…

Money is not speech, despite the Citizens United ruling.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#96

Post by jstalin »

ams6110 wrote: post #39

Michigan is in the toilet. Detroit is bankrupt, huge parts of the city are abandoned ruins, and the rest of the state isn't much better off. Tesla probably would not sell many cars there anyway. If I'm wrong, it's a good opportunity for northern Indiana or Ohio to court a Tesla store.

While I agree with you about Detroit, the rest of the state is doing fairly well.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#98

Post by jusben1369 »

skrebbel wrote: post #22

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

That's rather dramatic but then again this is the sort of response the blog post is meant to elicit. Tesla has proven to be very adept at working with state governments for financial gain so it would appear that they're not complaining about the closeness of state government and automobile companies. Just that they came out on the losing end for now of this particular instance

- "Greater Phoenix Economic Council President and CEO Barry Broome said Nevada offers of upfront incentives and cash put it as much as $300 million ahead of other states bidding for the plant. Tesla considered Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and its home state of California"

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#99

Post by zenocon »

phurley wrote: post #79
clarebear wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My retired father-in-law who lives in a suburb of Detroit got a car that was not manufactured by the by the Big Three a couple years ago. He felt so much social pressure that he quickly returned it and got one that was. He told me that some "foreign" cars would be egged in his neighborhood. I put foreign in quotes, as big three cars are not always manufactured in the US and sometimes other cars are manufactured here.…

I live in a Detroit suburb, a large number of the residents here are engineers, many for GM, Ford and Chrysler, but quite a few for Toyota, Hyundai and other foreign suppliers (like Bosch and Yazaki). I see many domestic, but almost as many imports here. I think a lot of the stigma is gone, certainly there is considerable pressure for people to drive their employers vehicle to work, but at least in my (relatively ups…

Agree. I worked for one of these three companies for a span. While I was there, they did have a rule that if you're not driving their car, you can't park it in the covered parking lot. That was the extent of the backlash, and I've lived in this area most of my life. I think a lot of these stories and anecdotes about tires getting slashed, and people being harassed for driving foreign are not accurate today.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#100

Post by exDM69 »

nathanm412 wrote: post #84
wiremine wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Michigan, and was dishearten when I read about this story the other day. But not really that surprised. A few observations: - Tesla isn't a name brand here like Ford or GM. In fact, if you asked a lot of people if we should help the Big Three with this sort of legislation, you might be surprised by the answer. Remember, they generate a LOT of jobs in this state: not just the Big Three, but the tier 2 and ti…

Cold weather performance is trumpeted a lot by EV detractors, but the number one selling new car in Norway last month was the Tesla Model S. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/tesla-norway-idUSL... Here's an interesting interview from Elon Musk about the Tesla battery winter performance. http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/01/interview-with-elon-musk...

I live in a very cold place with weather comparable to Norway. There are lots of problems when it comes to dealing with cars in the winter. I have no doubt that Tesla could be a decent choice for a car, but it makes perfect sense to be a bit wary about electric vehicles manufactured in California sunshine, especially if you don't have a garage to store the car in.

In addition to battery life and cabin heating issues, there can be lots of small problems. I'm a bit worried about the fancy electric door handles, for example. I've been locked out of my car because the locks were frozen and sometimes even the doors themselves frozen solid.

I have no doubt that Tesla can overcome these issues but they will have to do extensive testing as well as make it known to the public that their car is a reliable vehicle even in wintertime.

People up here in the north tend to favor simple and solid cars and marketing Teslas and other electric vehicles is going to be difficult. The issue is half technical and half marketing.

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