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Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

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Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#141

Post by vidarh »

godzilla82 wrote: post #129
rconti wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

shrug Just paid $750 for an iPhone 6, unlocked. The alternative was renting it from my carrier for a similar amount, divided into 24 months, and being handcuffed to them for unlocks and the like. By using BYOD pricing on my ATT plan, I pay less every month than I would on a subsidy. Yeah, I'm not everyone , but arguing that "most people" won't do what I did is kind of missing the point-- they already DO pay that much…

May be I am missing something (I am not in the US). But, do you have to pay rent for the device if you go for the subsidised option? If so, then its not a subsidy. If it is a subsidy, then you are clearly gaining the subsidised amount. The only thing that you are losing is the ability to switch carriers for the contract period. Also, are you not allowed to choose a plan of your choice if you go for a subsidised phone…

The "subsidies" are not truly subsidies, they are built into the contract prices. At least in the EU every operator offers SIM-only contracts (though they may or may not advertise them), because not doing so would be a clear and blatant violation of EU anti-tying regulations, and they are always cheaper.

To the extent you are getting a real subsidy, it will be if the carrier decides to forgo margins on the device.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#142

Post by 7952 »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #2

Probably the most interesting thing from Apple today, in my opinion. The ability to buy short term plans from different providers effortlessly can turn my tablet into a much more versatile device, and increase competition and reduce long-term carrier lock-in. It's pretty sweet and if it can set a standard for phones then we'll see carriers become true utilities between which customers can switch easily if they get po…

In a truly competitive system there would be no need to ever conciously think about the carrier you were using. Your data would just be routed securely using the best means available and people would compete to be the best connection. Instead we have an absurd situation where carriers want to prevent customers using their product!

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#143

Post by gsnedders »

vidarh wrote: post #141
godzilla82 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May be I am missing something (I am not in the US). But, do you have to pay rent for the device if you go for the subsidised option? If so, then its not a subsidy. If it is a subsidy, then you are clearly gaining the subsidised amount. The only thing that you are losing is the ability to switch carriers for the contract period. Also, are you not allowed to choose a plan of your choice if you go for a subsidised phone…

The "subsidies" are not truly subsidies, they are built into the contract prices. At least in the EU every operator offers SIM-only contracts (though they may or may not advertise them), because not doing so would be a clear and blatant violation of EU anti-tying regulations, and they are always cheaper. To the extent you are getting a real subsidy, it will be if the carrier decides to forgo margins on the device.

> …and they are always cheaper.

This isn't always true, though it's typically only not true when operators are throwing ridiculous offers at people who are trying to leave them. Similarly, I got phone a few years back at a ridiculous student-only deal. Both cases ended up with me paying about £200 more over the whole contract than I would've with SIM-only contracts, and both got me phones that retail for more than double that.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#144

Post by BuildTheRobots »

I'm slightly amazed at the awed coverage this is getting.

As others have pointed out, multi-IMSI SIM cards are nothing new, though points to Apple for getting the network carriers on board and sharing keys.

Getting a replacement SIM card is not a problem (certainly not in the UK). Most of the networks will happily post you out one for free and you can buy them for virtually no money in all phone shops, most supermarkets, market stalls... everywhere -even in this tiny backwater technophobic village where I work.

My worry is that this is the start of a path down to devices having embedded SIM cards that are not user replaceable, or even have no SIM at all and just use the secure storage module built into the chipset. This seems like a bad hole to be heading down as it would directly take choice and power away from the end user.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#145

Post by TeMPOraL »

sanderjd wrote: post #102
colinbartlett wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've converted at least a dozen friends and family members to this route just by showing them with simple math how much I save. I think it's very slowly catching on how bad a deal it is to rent your phone on contract.

Step 2 is converting to phones that don't cost $750! There are some great phones for less than $300 unsubsidized nowadays.

One thing I learned is that there are things in life you shouldn't be cheap about, and one of them is most definitely a smartphone. You're buying a device you'll be using every day, likely pulling it up for few seconds every little while. You definitely don't want to have a smartphone that looks like crap, hangs up all the time and in the end won't let you do half of the things it was supposed to do. This would be introducing an incredibly big source of frustrations into your daily routine. I wouldn't be surprised if additional psychiatrist bill would be bigger than money saved on the phone.

I was stuck for three years with a crapphone (LG P150) that was too weak to lift its own operating system (Android). After those three years of torture (and using it only for calls and text messages, as turning on Internet would max out the processing power and memory and would require taking out the battery) I can say such phones should not be allowed on the market. Especially not pushed by telecoms on contracts. It's especially sad to look at people who get burned by this when buying their first smartphones. It's basically a story of shattered dreams. It's just evil.

So folks, either buy a dumbphone (if all you need is text and calls), or shell out for some decent tech. Buy that Nexus or S4. It's worth the money.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#146

Post by hvidgaard »

BuildTheRobots wrote: post #144

I'm slightly amazed at the awed coverage this is getting. As others have pointed out, multi-IMSI SIM cards are nothing new, though points to Apple for getting the network carriers on board and sharing keys. Getting a replacement SIM card is not a problem (certainly not in the UK). Most of the networks will happily post you out one for free and you can buy them for virtually no money in all phone shops, most supermark…

That would be AMPS and NMT all over again. There was a very good reason we switched to simcards.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#147

Post by eyko »

KJasper wrote: post #136
Ricapar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about the user experience. If switching, a user no longer has to wait on delivery of a small physical item from the new carrier. The user doesn't have to fiddle with a paperclip to pop out the SIM. (Average user could be scared to do so, or could scratch/bend the rather fragile SIM tray). It could all theoretically be done from a settings menu.

In the Netherlands you can even buy simcards in supermarkets, almost every supermarket is a virtual provider itself. If you go to a telecomshop they'll install it for you. Your describing something that's completely foreign to everyone over here.

This would potentially allow you to change providers (O2->3, Vodafone->giffgaff) without needing to go to any physical shops. Just get a new contract online, apply it to your sim card. You get to also keep your number without having to fiddle with PAC codes and activation timeframes. I guess.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#148

Post by caw »

rconti wrote: post #47
Igglyboo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, no one is going to want to pay $600+ for a phone(in the US). TBH, over $200 for a phone on contract is really high as well.

shrug Just paid $750 for an iPhone 6, unlocked. The alternative was renting it from my carrier for a similar amount, divided into 24 months, and being handcuffed to them for unlocks and the like. By using BYOD pricing on my ATT plan, I pay less every month than I would on a subsidy. Yeah, I'm not everyone , but arguing that "most people" won't do what I did is kind of missing the point-- they already DO pay that much…

You have to realize that it really wasn't until recently that you could do BYOD on the networks. They wouldn't give you a discount at all for owning the device outright, even at the end of the 2 year contract. There was no benefit to having paid $750 for a phone, except if you really really wanted that particular phone. The best math then was to upgrade to a new phone as soon as your contract ended. Otherwise, you were paying the built-in $10/mo or whatever for old tech. Far better to shell out $0-$200 for a new phone on contract and lock-in for another 2 years.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#149

Post by mmphosis »

7952 wrote: post #142
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #2

Probably the most interesting thing from Apple today, in my opinion. The ability to buy short term plans from different providers effortlessly can turn my tablet into a much more versatile device, and increase competition and reduce long-term carrier lock-in. It's pretty sweet and if it can set a standard for phones then we'll see carriers become true utilities between which customers can switch easily if they get po…

In a truly competitive system there would be no need to ever conciously think about the carrier you were using. Your data would just be routed securely using the best means available and people would compete to be the best connection. Instead we have an absurd situation where carriers want to prevent customers using their product!

In a truly non-competitive system, we might be more conscious and more connected. Our internet connections might be routed using free high-speed publicly available internet and people would complain. Instead we have an absurd situation where a cartel of so-called "carriers" charge paying customers a toll for using the internet!

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#150

Post by ams6110 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #145
sanderjd wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 2 is converting to phones that don't cost $750! There are some great phones for less than $300 unsubsidized nowadays.

One thing I learned is that there are things in life you shouldn't be cheap about, and one of them is most definitely a smartphone. You're buying a device you'll be using every day, likely pulling it up for few seconds every little while. You definitely don't want to have a smartphone that looks like crap, hangs up all the time and in the end won't let you do half of the things it was supposed to do. This would be in…

I've got a Moto-G from Republic Wireless. $149 to buy the phone and $10/month. It's perfectly fine.
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