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Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

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Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#101

Post by X-Cubed »

drdaeman wrote: post #68
Animats wrote: post #41

Why not have a phone with three SIM card slots? Avoid the kickback from the carrier to Apple.

Why have SIM cards at all? What's the point in keeping credentials from the legitimate customer? Store Ki directly on device. Modern phones have HSMs so key will be kept as secure as with a "real" SIM HSM, and bet phones could do the necessary crypto just fine. Sure, a customer will be able to clone their own SIM card and share it with others, but I don't think that's a major issue. Logging onto the network with a cl…

The nice thing with SIMs is that if your battery is flat, or you put your phone through the washing machine, you can grab the card and throw it into a spare phone (or a friend's) and carry on.

If you have the Ki on the device, you're effectively going back to CDMA-style devices, whereby you need the carrier's assistance to move between handsets.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#102

Post by sanderjd »

colinbartlett wrote: post #58
rconti wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

shrug Just paid $750 for an iPhone 6, unlocked. The alternative was renting it from my carrier for a similar amount, divided into 24 months, and being handcuffed to them for unlocks and the like. By using BYOD pricing on my ATT plan, I pay less every month than I would on a subsidy. Yeah, I'm not everyone , but arguing that "most people" won't do what I did is kind of missing the point-- they already DO pay that much…

I've converted at least a dozen friends and family members to this route just by showing them with simple math how much I save. I think it's very slowly catching on how bad a deal it is to rent your phone on contract.

Step 2 is converting to phones that don't cost $750! There are some great phones for less than $300 unsubsidized nowadays.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#103

Post by techsupporter »

milkshakes wrote: post #46
davb wrote: post #36

I really don't like the sound of this. The SIM card is the one thing that keeps mobile service relatively divorced from the hardware. I can keep the same phone but change SIM whenever it suits. I can also take change hardware and just move the SIM. I don't need to ask my provider or hardware OEM for permission. I have control. In the Apple scenario I'm giving this up. I vaguely remember some wrangling with GSMA over…

nobody says you have to use the Apple SIM. it's just a card. remove it and replace it if you do not like it.

But that's his point: What incentive does Apple (or any other mobile device manufacturer) have to make devices with user-replaceable SIMs?

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#104

Post by sanderjd »

untog wrote: post #88
malyk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different cultures for sure. I've had 5 mobile phones...some candybar in the early 00's, a flip phone in the mid 00's, and iphone 3g, 4s, and now 6. I've never even /seen/ a sim card in person. It's a piece of tech that I shouldn't have to every even know exists. I just want my phone to work. I shouldn't have to play around with a microscopic piece of plastic and metal for that to happen.

It's a piece of tech that I shouldn't have to every even know exists. I just want my phone to work. I see it the opposite way. Every phone should have a part in it that is removable and replaceable and ensures that you can do whatever you want with your device. I was staggered when I found out that some US CDMA devices are literally unusable without the permission of the company you originally had service with.

Having a replaceable part is not the only way to ensure you can do whatever you want with your device! It is possible to ensure that with a universal SIM purely through software. That this isn't the current situation doesn't mean it isn't possible. I don't have to replace a tiny little piece of plastic in my computer to install Linux instead of Windows or to connect to wifi using Comcast instead of Qwest.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#105

Post by monksy »

Igglyboo wrote: post #35
soylentcola wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real issue is that US customers (at least) have been conditioned to think of a smart phone as something that costs between $0 and $300 due to the common use of contracts and subsidies. Even if a carrier offers a non-contract plan, they are often not that much better as far as price (with some exceptions like TMobile and some MVNOs), so they balk at paying $650-850 for a handset. That was one of the things…

Yep, no one is going to want to pay $600+ for a phone(in the US). TBH, over $200 for a phone on contract is really high as well.

I paid ~$350 for a used S4 that I got activated on PagePlus. Why would I pay $80 a month to a big named carrier who keeps charging me rent on the phone after its paid off? (My plan is $39 for unlimited voice/text+1GB data, I used to do 500mb+1.2k min+3k texts for $29/mo).

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#106

Post by kosievdmerwe »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #94
scholia wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with loads of money just buy two phones? ;-) You're right, but it does feature in some higher-end phones http://www.phonearena.com/phones/Lenovo-Vibe-Z2_id8895

I'm not really privy to the psychy of someone who uses a dual SIM, I doubt most readers on Hackernews use one. To me, I visualize a Chinese business man who wants separate numbers to separate his official (married) life and his gray (mistress) life. But this is just a stereotype I developed to deal with going to the provinces. Is Lenovo now considered high end?

I'm not sure why people would use it in a high-end phone, but on low-end phones people use multiple sims as a means to save money. Especially considering a lot of developing countries have prepaid schemes. So you'd have one sim for data and another for voice.

Though, thinking about it, maybe people still use multiple sims in higher-end phones for the same reason?

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#107

Post by pktgen »

jschwartzi wrote: post #80
mikeash wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T-Mobile has moved off long-term contracts almost entirely. AT&T is pushing their Next program hard, which decouples phone buying from the subscription (I believe you have to pay off the phone if you cancel, but the payments are separate and you don't lose out on a subsidy). Things seem to be moving pretty fast in that direction, and I'm hopeful.

T-Mobile does something basically equivalent, where they give you a line item on your bill for the device payment plus a line item for your subscription. If this kind of card gets common I may have to buy one if I do any serious business travel again. It would be nice to never have to roam again, and instead simply make arrangements with a local carrier myself via the card.

This is kind of unclear, but are you saying T-Mobile's model is equivalent to the traditional carrier subsidy model? It really isn't, precisely because of the separation you mention - you can choose not to buy a new phone and you won't pay for it every month. With the traditional subsidy model, since the subsidy is included in the base price, you're paying for the subsidy whether or not you're using it.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#108

Post by userbinator »

maximumoverload wrote: post #30
jacalata wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want a new SIM card, and you don't have a contract, just buy a new SIM card and put it in your phone / tablet. My parents couldn't change a SIM card to save their lives - they couldn't open the phone to get the card out, they'd have trouble holding the micro SIM card if they did get it open, and they'd probably put it in backwards and just scratch the hell out of the contacts if they made it that far. Why sh…

That's totally weird to me. I don't want to say it from a position of superiority or anything, just different mobile culture, but in here, changing SIM cards is normal. It's what you do when you buy a new phone, because - as I said below - you get a SIM card separately, even when you buy it right with the operator with the contract. But I guess it's a different culture

Southeast Asia? That's one area where there appears to be little, if any, technophobia around SIM cards; and in some of them, on average each person has more than one mobile phone. Multi-SIM devices are also extremely common there.

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#109

Post by ejz »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #2

Probably the most interesting thing from Apple today, in my opinion. The ability to buy short term plans from different providers effortlessly can turn my tablet into a much more versatile device, and increase competition and reduce long-term carrier lock-in. It's pretty sweet and if it can set a standard for phones then we'll see carriers become true utilities between which customers can switch easily if they get po…

I definitely agree with this. It represents an interesting power shift; before the core technology was your SIM, and your phone shifted around your carrier. Apple kind of wants to change this by making it so that the iPhone is at the center, with the carrier being subservient to the consumers' whims. I would think this is a step too far for most carriers, but then again, Apple got carriers to agree to it...

Re: Apple Built A SIM Card That Lets You Switch Between AT&T, Sprint, And T-Mobile

#110

Post by _lce0 »

Someone wrote: post #43
koyote wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a step back to me. Want to change operator but the cheapest operator does not have a deal with Apple? Well you're out of luck!

No, you just do what you had to do before: get a SIM-card from your operator, and put it in your iPhone.

not everyone owns an iphone, also here we are talking about another apple device
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