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Why Inequality Matters

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Re: Why Inequality Matters

#251

Post by UVB-76 »

brandonmenc wrote: post #95
r0h1n wrote: post #10

I must say Bill Gates, in his post Microsoft avatar, continues to surprise me constantly. This is a refreshingly candid and sanguine review of Piketty's book from someone who was a ruthless capitalist not so long ago. Gates rightly (and self-servingly) also points out that Piketty does not consider philanthropy as a means to correct some of capitalism's imbalances. Here's a few of Gates' conclusions: > Piketty is rig…

> I’m also a big believer in the estate tax As a third-generation American, I find the estate tax, even in its current form, extremely offensive, because it strives to reset every generation to zero instead of letting families establish themselves over time by building on the sacrifice and efforts of the parents. The current level of taxation, even though it's been recently, "graciously" increased, greatly extends th…

A wonderful worldview, until one considers the reality that extraordinary wealth does not tend to accrue to the most virtuous, 'hard-working' individuals in society.

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#252

Post by rjdagost »

astazangasta wrote: post #166
radmuzom wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. Also, those of us who fight against inequality are not fighting for equality at all. What we say is simple - if you have a million dollars and 100 people to share it - rather than 1 person have 990,000 and the remaining 10,000 divided among 99 we want the 1st person to have 800,000 and the remaining 200,000 to be divided among the 99. That way, the first guy can have his $5,000 wine without paying any…

Don't speak for everyone. Personally I think the idea that we need wealth concentration at all is bogus. Investment is already performed by teams of skilled experts on behalf of the wealthy. We don't need individuals who simply perform the function of owning things and reaping the benefits for literally doing nothing. There are better ways we could be allocating capital. We also don't need wealth concentration to enc…

You write as if no one has ever tried different ways of allocating capital. The 20th century is replete with examples of such "better" ways of allocating capital that failed spectacularly (often with considerable bloodshed).

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#253

Post by CamperBob2 »

r0h1n wrote: post #10

I must say Bill Gates, in his post Microsoft avatar, continues to surprise me constantly. This is a refreshingly candid and sanguine review of Piketty's book from someone who was a ruthless capitalist not so long ago. Gates rightly (and self-servingly) also points out that Piketty does not consider philanthropy as a means to correct some of capitalism's imbalances. Here's a few of Gates' conclusions: > Piketty is rig…

This is a refreshingly candid and sanguine review of Piketty's book from someone who was a ruthless capitalist not so long ago.

News flash: Billionaire who spends 0.01% of his money advocates consumption tax! Cats living with other cats! Water found to be wet!

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#254

Post by harryh »

michaelvkpdx wrote: post #198

I appreciate Gates' analysis of Piketty, but Gates is still blind to an important point- he came from a middle-class background and therefore had enough capital to gain a footing in the world and to be able to write his initial code without worrying about the basic needs of survival. 40% of youth in the USA today do not even have that, and as such, have virtually no chance at all of being able to even play in the cap…

Gates is giving away the vast majority of his wealth to causes meant to benefit the poorest people in the world. While some of your criticism is valid I don't think it's fair to say that hie's ignorant of the existence of poor people.

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#255

Post by m0th87 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #205
m0th87 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piketty addresses this specifically in pointing out that wealth had to be reconstructed almost from scratch following WW2. If you buy his thesis, then this wealth will be inherited by third- and fourth- generation billionaires next, unless another shock at the scale of WW2 happens.

I buy into that thesis for Europe, but the continental US was largely shielded from the destruction of WW2.

True! For the US, concentration of wealth was lower than Europe pre-WW2, but is higher today. According to him, that's because the wealthy here only had to contend with the Depression, and avoided most of the shocks of WW2.

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#256

Post by mempko »

JeffL wrote: post #247
mempko wrote: post #223

I am going to repeat here, what I posted on hist site. Mr Gates, I am hoping you posted this not only to express your opinion, but to engage in conversation. And it appears you certainly are. My criticism with your response is that philanthropy distorts economic resources through a similar mechanism that consumption does. That is, by dictate. I believe in the idea that people who are affected by decisions made should…

Very interesting and thought-provoking point. Although on the other hand, I personally think that Bill Gates, acting as a king and trying to figure out what he thinks will do the most justice and good, is going to do better for the world than what people in a democracy will vote for themselves. Democracy has given us unbalanced budgets, runaway debt, pointless wars, and corrupting entitlements. Bill Gates is doing so…

I am guessing when you say "democracy" you are referring to places like the USA?

If so, let me ask you a question. Do you feel that you have a say in decisions that affect you day to day?

If the answer is no, I feel it isn't fair to blame the problems we have on democracy.

As for what the system the USA has, well, these guys think it is a Plutocracy http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/12/citigroup-plutono...

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#257

Post by paulhauggis »

aidenn0 wrote: post #230
paulhauggis wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with not using the "double tax" phrase, as long as all taxes are included in tax arguments. I have heard here on HN that Denmark and Sweden don't have taxes that are that high..while not including all of the small taxes that you pay on a daily basis..deflating the actual tax rate to make it seem better. Also, Companies actually contribute more in taxes than people like to admit. They pay workers' wages..and…

> Also, Companies actually contribute more in taxes than people like to admit. They pay workers' wages..and those wages include tax money that goes to the government. That's still a tax on the workers' wages, not a tax on the company. If we shifted all income tax into a payroll tax, then by your definition workers aren't taxed at all? Anything that increases the cost of employing a worker will reduce the marginal net…

The company is paying the worker from earned revenue, it isn't coming out of thin air.

My point is that they are providing the income that is taxed and used by the government.

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#258

Post by Rylinks »

Taek wrote: post #224
shadowfox wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an unpopular opinion, but I don't think that everyone should have a roughly equal say in how things go. The average person isn't as well equipped to deal with large problems as the elite are The usual trouble with this sort of idea is who gets to decide the "elite" that makes the decisions. How do you prevent this group from becoming an insular clique and debar other people from similar opportunities etc. Powe…

No I totally agree. I believe that there should be an elite who makes most of the decisions, which is mostly how things are today, but I also believe that there needs to be methods of being sure that the elite are operating in everyon'es best interest, and that they will be replaced if they aren't. There are a lot of broken incentives. If one of the elite comes to the realization that they are no longer the most usef…

Exit rights are a good starting point for a solution.

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#259

Post by loumf »

malvim wrote: post #221
loumf wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not evident in Gates's review, but one of Piketty's arguments for a wealth tax is just so we can get a better picture of wealth. He goes through great lengths to try to get data on it -- if there was a tax, even a small one, we'd have far greater transparency. He then thinks that this would lead to changes -- because his data, no matter how good you think it is, is arguable and possibly wrong.

Haven't read Piketty - not sure I can handle it with the almost-insignificant knowledge I have about economy - but this argument seems very reasonable. I've only read people writing ABOUT Piketty's book, and haven't seen anyone put it this way. I'm from Brazil, and with the upcoming elections people have been all sorts of crazy down here, throwing around whatever "facts" they can find on the internet. One of the main…

I think it's pretty clear from the book. I did a quick search -- this blog comment by Dan Kervick sums up the argument pretty clearly.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/05/pikettys-wealth-tax-r...

Re: Why Inequality Matters

#260

Post by kamaal »

Omniusaspirer wrote: post #147
brandonmenc wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m also a big believer in the estate tax As a third-generation American, I find the estate tax, even in its current form, extremely offensive, because it strives to reset every generation to zero instead of letting families establish themselves over time by building on the sacrifice and efforts of the parents. The current level of taxation, even though it's been recently, "graciously" increased, greatly extends th…

It's just a different mentality towards life and entitlement- there's nothing sad about it. Hitting all your points in order: 1) 1 million dollars is a lot of money to come out of nowhere. It's simply dishonest to pretend that isn't a life changing amount for a middle class family. At the very least it's going to be like you said- modest home paid off(100-500k), car loans all paid off(50k), and student loans paid off…

>>I'm really not seeing why anyone should be entitled to never work again simply because their parents made a lot of money.

Because, their parents earned it. People slog their bones off, make a lot of sacrifices and after a life time of work get to such a position.

If some body's parents doesn't want to leave a inheritance, or don't to earn or whatever. I would leave that at calling it as their personal decision.

>>It's absolutely a lottery.

Its really strange to see the way you like to put it like absolutely no real effort was involved in building that wealth at all.

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