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Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

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Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#81
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally went the opposite. I switched to OSX soon after the Intel transition and loved it, after a decade in Windows land. I honestly just much prefer the look and feel of Apple products and software. I find them more enjoyable to use, consistent, more intelligently thought out and much less hassle. I also used to hate Xcode 3 but as of Xcode 5 I've really grown to like it. You're my bizarro opposite. I bet you h…

I've been a MacBook user for 5 years, but Windows File Explorer is still light-years ahead of the atrocity that is Finder.

I've tried to "go mac" about 3 times now, at quite a bit of expense, and the horrible and endless well of failure that is Finder continues to rebuff me. Even as Explorer continues to change and ends up with some weird corners, it's such a much better and more efficient file manager.

I'll find myself going weeks, enjoying my rMBP, then I'll need to do some heavy duty file management and end up in Finder-hell and immediately wish I was using something better. DirectoryOpus, Midnight Commander, anything.

It says something when the CLI is not only faster to use, but more user-friendly and discoverable than the GUI.

In fact, I'm about to start work on a bunch of file management and I've been putting it off for a week just because I don't want to interact with Finder.

Gahhh, it's a terrible terrible piece of software.

(maybe I should just break down and install this http://www.ragesw.com/products/explorer.html)

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac OS X: The 2000-2003 period included three full releases (not counting 10.0, since that was the culmination of several years of work), and didn't have quality problems. The 2003-2011 period had four releases. So I don't see an obvious lesson that one year is sustainable. iOS: 2007-2011 four updates at one year intervals before the decline in quality that lots of people perceive starting with iOS6. Again, hard to s…

The period between 2000 and 2003 is kind of hard to draw any conclusions from or the classify as "not having quality problems". That period started with quality problems and saw Apple scrambling to make Mac OS X a reasonable OS to replace OS 9. For example, 10.1 re-introduced disc burning which was missing from 10.0. OS X 10.0 was also riddled with kernel panics and really sluggish. 10.1 continued to have pretty seve…

I'm not sure the intial problems really sabotage my point. They were able to, year after year, squash bugs while adding substantial functionality that was missing in 10.0.

I guess "not having quality problems" was a poor phrasing. The point is that they weren't suffering from a quick release cycle. But perhaps it's ambiguous.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#83
I own 2 separate apple PCs. And seriously considering replacing one of them (Mac Mini) with Mac Pro ($3000 starting price !!) for video work. And probably getting another mac laptop for wife.

I got on the apple fan train kinda late, like right around when they transitioned to Intel.

With that said, I sometimes feel Apple hitting it big with iPhones was similar to someone winning a lottery. Often when someone wins jackpot, he grows distant from friends/family because of his money. He loses his direction in life due to the sudden infusion of wealth.

I feel that way with Apple.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#84

It's the secrecy. Apple can't test things extensively because the whole world is trying to get a pic of their latest devices. That coupled with huge scale is bound to create hiccups, the real test is how fast and how well they address the issues.

But we are talking about software here, not hardware...

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#85

I'd just like to point out that this is likely not to get better with this (arbitrary) decision to release a new OS every year. It used to be that we'd have a new release roughly every 2 years (from 2003 - 2011). This meant: 1. it was in development for 2 years and thus probably stabler to begin with, and 2) there were then 2 years to iron out the bugs. You'd get the new OS, there were some understandable kinks, but…

Mac OS X: The 2000-2003 period included three full releases (not counting 10.0, since that was the culmination of several years of work), and didn't have quality problems. The 2003-2011 period had four releases. So I don't see an obvious lesson that one year is sustainable. iOS: 2007-2011 four updates at one year intervals before the decline in quality that lots of people perceive starting with iOS6. Again, hard to s…

> when I read Siracusa's review

Are you referring to his Yosemite review? Is it out yet?

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#86
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a MacBook user for 5 years, but Windows File Explorer is still light-years ahead of the atrocity that is Finder.

I've tried to "go mac" about 3 times now, at quite a bit of expense, and the horrible and endless well of failure that is Finder continues to rebuff me. Even as Explorer continues to change and ends up with some weird corners, it's such a much better and more efficient file manager. I'll find myself going weeks, enjoying my rMBP, then I'll need to do some heavy duty file management and end up in Finder-hell and immed…

I always read about people hating Finder, and I never understand why.

There are some things that I can't live without: being able to drag a file or folder into a file open/save dialog (try doing this in Windows! HOHO), and the column view. It really makes file management a breeze, and I rarely drop into the Terminal, unless I'm doing some heavy-duty renaming, or stuff like that.

Could you elaborate on the Finder problems you're encountering?

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#87
This comments section has lots of people saying "x was when things got really bad" followed by people saying "actually x was the pinnacle." (And some then following up with "it was actually y when it got bad.")

This has been the pattern in The Comments since I started using Apple stuff 15 years ago. Likewise, "Apple used to innovate and now they're out of ideas."

Which isn't to say that things haven't perhaps taken a downturn lately: there have unquestionably been an unusually large number of publicized missteps in the last couple of months. Some technical, some social, some real, and some media-hyped. But an apparent clustering at one moment doesn't assure or even imply a long-term trend. Five and ten years from now I feel confident the same comments will be being made.

People get annoyed at the un-Steve-like-ness of Cook's apparent focus on quantifiable things like "CustSat". But, when you're serving literally hundreds of millions of customers in a blog-driven media world, it's hard to know what would be a better way to measure these things. If customers are becoming less satisfied, you can be certain the executive team knows it.

Still, it seems apparent that there's an immediate PR issue. (And simultaneously, it should be noted, iPhones are flying off the shelves in unprecedented numbers and at likely higher ASPs than ever.) If I were Cook, I'd do what I could to make really sure we got our act together in the short term, look for some opportunities to buy back some goodwill, and then I'd probably keep doing roughly what we'd been doing for the last decade or so while weighing the feasibility of some of the commmon suggestions, such as decoupling OS releases from hardware releases.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#88
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a MacBook user for 5 years, but Windows File Explorer is still light-years ahead of the atrocity that is Finder.

I've tried to "go mac" about 3 times now, at quite a bit of expense, and the horrible and endless well of failure that is Finder continues to rebuff me. Even as Explorer continues to change and ends up with some weird corners, it's such a much better and more efficient file manager. I'll find myself going weeks, enjoying my rMBP, then I'll need to do some heavy duty file management and end up in Finder-hell and immed…

Spotlight is good. Really good.

I can go weeks without acknowledging the existence of a filesystem. I do "file management" literally never. Just throw everything in my Dropbox folder and Command-Space to find it when I want it back.

I see my current project's tree in Sublime Text all the time, but I rarely if ever use Finder proper.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#89
>Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

No, blogs and articles are experiencing a problematic decline in long and medium term memory.

Apple has always (under Jobs or not) had ups and downs, in both software and hardware quality control.

Remember how OS X 10.1 was unusable, the problems with Lion, when it first came out? The file-loss bug in the FS? And tons of other things besides.

As for hardware, well, Jobs first love child was the cube, with the overheating problem (and the not-selling-well problem). Then we had the iBook G3 logic board issues (for tons of models). Battery issues. The G5 Pro cooling goo leak issue. Etc etc. And of course, as any long time Mac buyer knows, a classic advice is "never buy the first revision of a product".

Part of it, for hardware, is that a bug in a production run e.g. for Dell doesn't affect that many people (because Dell puts out 50+ different models, whereas Apple puts out a few, so each of Apple's has tens of millions of buyers). And of course the press doesn't care much for a fault in Dell or HP or whatever production run, whereas the slightest BS in an Apple production run is a "*gate". And of course Apple does more daring stuff with machining, weight, thinness, internal design etc than most companies, so there's always a chance to screw some things that's bigger than in just assembling some brick-sized plasticy laptop.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#90

I'd just like to point out that this is likely not to get better with this (arbitrary) decision to release a new OS every year. It used to be that we'd have a new release roughly every 2 years (from 2003 - 2011). This meant: 1. it was in development for 2 years and thus probably stabler to begin with, and 2) there were then 2 years to iron out the bugs. You'd get the new OS, there were some understandable kinks, but…

>I'd just like to point out that this is likely not to get better with this (arbitrary) decision to release a new OS every year.

Release dates are arbitrary and inconsequential. Scope and freeze dates are what matters.

>Couple this with the stark reality that Apple has simply run out of ideas in terms of software. Every new version of OS X boils down to: 1. arbitrary UI tweak (forcing developers to refresh), 2. Gimmick features in Mail.app/Safari (RSS in Mail/Safari, Postcards in Mail, yet another 3d effect to re-arrange your tabs in Safari, annotations in Mail, etc etc etc), and 3. regressions of features that worked for years.

Siracusa begs to differ.

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