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Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

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Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#51

Post by hackuser »

tolmasky wrote: post #37

I'd just like to point out that this is likely not to get better with this (arbitrary) decision to release a new OS every year. It used to be that we'd have a new release roughly every 2 years (from 2003 - 2011). This meant: 1. it was in development for 2 years and thus probably stabler to begin with, and 2) there were then 2 years to iron out the bugs. You'd get the new OS, there were some understandable kinks, but…

> It used to be that we'd have a new release roughly every 2 years (from 2003 - 2011). This meant: 1. it was in development for 2 years and thus probably stabler to begin with, and 2) there were then 2 years to iron out the bugs.

Doesn't this discussion boil down to the trade-offs between slower and more rapid release cycles? For example, releases after 2 years of development are far more complex, with all the disadvantages that entails. Technology reaches users more slowly (solutions to some bugs/features could take 3 years or more) which also delays feedback to developers. etc.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#52

Post by tolmasky »

hackuser wrote: post #51
tolmasky wrote: post #37

I'd just like to point out that this is likely not to get better with this (arbitrary) decision to release a new OS every year. It used to be that we'd have a new release roughly every 2 years (from 2003 - 2011). This meant: 1. it was in development for 2 years and thus probably stabler to begin with, and 2) there were then 2 years to iron out the bugs. You'd get the new OS, there were some understandable kinks, but…

> It used to be that we'd have a new release roughly every 2 years (from 2003 - 2011). This meant: 1. it was in development for 2 years and thus probably stabler to begin with, and 2) there were then 2 years to iron out the bugs. Doesn't this discussion boil down to the trade-offs between slower and more rapid release cycles? For example, releases after 2 years of development are far more complex, with all the disadv…

What's funny is that Apple seems to have found the anti-sweetspot for its release cycles.

For example, for an app like Safari, it would make so much more sense to release very frequently (ala Chrome/Firefox) separate from the yearly OS cycles. Instead, new web standards features/JS improvements/what-have-you are inexplicably tied to fluff features like 3d tabs. On the other hand, features that would make more sense to not mutate constantly on your user get changed way too frequently (for example Mail, which quite frankly doesn't need constant updating, yet still broke Gmail for so many people on Mavericks release and should have really been caught beforehand). This strikes a balance that lacks the benefits of continuous deployment AND slow sober releases.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#53

Post by mightykan »

serve_yay wrote: post #17

I don't see how you can deny it. They're doing a lot of things and some of them have very hard deadlines.

They can fix this problem. Decouple the hardware and software releases. There is nothing wrong with a new device that runs the older OS for a couple of months. Look at it this way:

- New device with a new OS that requires a few rapid updates in the weeks following release because the OS was rushed and is very buggy. > If one of these updates go wrong, which has happened, the user is stuck with a broken device or they could downgrade to an already buggy and less stable OS as before.

- New device with the "old" but stable OS that continues to function well until the new, stable OS comes out. > Even if the new OS's initial release is troublesome, a downgrade will take the user to the older but stable OS, so the device is still functional.

Which provides the better user experience? I vote for the second option, but Apple have opted for the first option without any clear long-term benefits.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#54

Post by gress »

dmix wrote: post #7

Apple's OSX design work seems stagnant as well. I find Gnome since version 3.12 (yes Gnome) looks better than Yosemite. I use Yosemite at work every day and find it's a step down from Mavericks. Most of the improvements seem to be to apps I never use (Maps, Safari). The new dark top bar is embarrassingly ugly compared to Gnome dark theme. The icons look childish and half-baked. Gnome's design in minimal, clean, and f…

Yosemite takes some getting used to. I had the same initial reaction - that the Linux desktops were comparable.

However after a few months of using it as my daily OS, I find it far cleaner and more productive than prior OSX versions.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#55

Post by JohnTHaller »

albeva wrote: post #33
dmix wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time you used it? Things have vastly improved recently. > often badly rendered fonts (fuzzy, weird aliasing) Gnome-tweak-tools and the infinality package makes fonts and aliasing comparable to OSX. As with most Linux things, it requires a bit of tweaking. Mostly due to politics and FOSS, as is the case with the fonts. Newer Gnome apps have clean padding and margins.

we are talking out of the box experience. One could make the same comment about os-x: it is possible to customise icons, change look & feel of the UI etc. to make it look the way you like it :D

The thing is, with something like Gnome, the 'out of box experience' varies widely based on distro.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#56

Post by macspoofing »

tolmasky wrote: post #37

I'd just like to point out that this is likely not to get better with this (arbitrary) decision to release a new OS every year. It used to be that we'd have a new release roughly every 2 years (from 2003 - 2011). This meant: 1. it was in development for 2 years and thus probably stabler to begin with, and 2) there were then 2 years to iron out the bugs. You'd get the new OS, there were some understandable kinks, but…

>This meant: 1. it was in development for 2 years and thus probably stabler to begin with

No. Shorter release cycles don't imply loss of quality. I claim the opposite in fact. Rolling releases are much better for quality. You're releasing smaller more focused features and battle-testing them in the field.

>There is no stabilization phase.

There are always stabilization phases. Not every major release will be an overhaul. Most will be incremental updates.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#57

Post by redacted »

rayiner wrote: post #12

My iPhone 6+ has shown more bugs in 2 weeks than the three iPhones I had prior to that (the original, 3G, and 4). Has hard locked at least half a dozen times, particularly when receiving calls.

It's completely insane. The custom 4.4 Android ROM I use on a beaten up old Galaxy S3 is more stable than iOS 8 on my iPad.

If you told me a month ago that Apple's flagship OS would be less stable than a heavily patched AOSP build [0] maintained by a few part-time indie ROM devs I would have laughed in your face.

[0] International GS3 never got an official Android 4.4 release. So it runs with a lot of 4.3 code, including drivers and radios, forward ported to 4.4, all held together with parts of other Samsung device code releases.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#59

Post by msane »

dmix wrote: post #7

Apple's OSX design work seems stagnant as well. I find Gnome since version 3.12 (yes Gnome) looks better than Yosemite. I use Yosemite at work every day and find it's a step down from Mavericks. Most of the improvements seem to be to apps I never use (Maps, Safari). The new dark top bar is embarrassingly ugly compared to Gnome dark theme. The icons look childish and half-baked. Gnome's design in minimal, clean, and f…

Gnome looks nice, and has it's "own" look - but is nowhere even near the quality of Yosemite IMO.

And talk about quality issues! Any given thing is way more likely to break on a linux desktop environment. I love FOSS and have been a Gnome and Ubuntu user for years but integrating a thousand FOSS projects together presents many challenges to quality.

Re: Is Apple experiencing a problematic decline in software quality?

#60

Post by DrJokepu »

adamnemecek wrote: post #13
sigzero wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For betas they have been good. I don't set the bar high for those. The last public beta is working really well. Yosemite reminds me of KDE in some of the stuff Apple has done.

The later versions have been decent but I installed the first public beta and really regretted it for like a month or two until it got a bit more stable.

Surely you did not disregard all the warnings on the download website and the installer itself and installed it on the main partition of your primary work computer?
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