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"Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

withouthotair.com

21–30 of 34 posts

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#21
post #16

I'm a bit confused. This author makes the future sound bleak, with impossible choices. He makes it sound like wind, solar, geothermal, and hydro will never be enough. But then, you read a quote like this from another source and the solution sounds almost easy: "Less than 1% of the world's deserts, if covered with concentrating solar power plants, could produce as much electricity as the world now uses." http://www.tr…

The main focus of that book is the energy choices facing the UK.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#22
post #16

I'm a bit confused. This author makes the future sound bleak, with impossible choices. He makes it sound like wind, solar, geothermal, and hydro will never be enough. But then, you read a quote like this from another source and the solution sounds almost easy: "Less than 1% of the world's deserts, if covered with concentrating solar power plants, could produce as much electricity as the world now uses." http://www.tr…

One of the major obstacles is that you don't just need power, you need power on demand. Using current technology it's impossible to store electricity so it needs to be used right away or it's lost. Wind, solar and many other forms of green energy aren't dependable enough that you can rely on them as your only power source. If the wind doesn't blow on a winter night you're going to have a cold apartment if you're dependent on wind and solar.

There are experiments being done with transferring large amounts of electricity across countries in Europe based on the assumption that it will always be windy or sunny somewhere and that if power can be transferred long enough the uncertainty of supply will be cut drastically.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#23

I like how he dispenses with the fallacy of saving energy by unplugging DC adapters or TVs by focusing our attention on the high-energy cost activities (heating and transportation). 5 minute shower * (5 gal/min) * (440 BTU [to heat water 85 degrees]/gal ) = 11000 BTU or 3.223kWh or ~16 hours of 200-watt HDTV 1 gallon of gasoline = 115000 BTU or 33.7kWh or 10 5-minute hot showers

5 gal/min? My showerhead is 1.75 gal/min; and, yes, it has plenty of pressure.

Also, you don't need to be heating your water to 150 degrees (65 + 85). In fact, that's dangerously hot. Even if you did have your water heater set that high, you'd be diluting the stream substantially with cold water to get it back down to a comfortable temperature.

Between these two, it would appear that he's easily off by a factor of 5 or so.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#24

I like how he dispenses with the fallacy of saving energy by unplugging DC adapters or TVs by focusing our attention on the high-energy cost activities (heating and transportation). 5 minute shower * (5 gal/min) * (440 BTU [to heat water 85 degrees]/gal ) = 11000 BTU or 3.223kWh or ~16 hours of 200-watt HDTV 1 gallon of gasoline = 115000 BTU or 33.7kWh or 10 5-minute hot showers

The ironic thing about bodily hygiene is that room temperature water is as good at killing bacteria as warm or hot water, incidentally its effect is negligible. Soap works better in warmer water, however as more and more people use liquid soaps and hand washes its meaningless as the added surfactants enable it to work just as well at lower temperatures. In fact many liquid soaps are better at removing grease and dirt…

Also, shower shorter. 5 minutes is way more than enough.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#25
post #22
post #16

I'm a bit confused. This author makes the future sound bleak, with impossible choices. He makes it sound like wind, solar, geothermal, and hydro will never be enough. But then, you read a quote like this from another source and the solution sounds almost easy: "Less than 1% of the world's deserts, if covered with concentrating solar power plants, could produce as much electricity as the world now uses." http://www.tr…

One of the major obstacles is that you don't just need power, you need power on demand. Using current technology it's impossible to store electricity so it needs to be used right away or it's lost. Wind, solar and many other forms of green energy aren't dependable enough that you can rely on them as your only power source. If the wind doesn't blow on a winter night you're going to have a cold apartment if you're depe…

You can convert the electrical energy to other forms of energy though and store it that way. In following the link that nkurz gave the Andasol solar power station was mentioned which apparently will store excess thermal energy in liquid salt allowing electricity generation into the night. Pumped storage hydroelectricity is another, more established, method of storage.

I don't envisage huge vats of molten salt meeting our energy needs throughout the night but I suspect that energy storage will continue to have a part to play in meeting our energy needs in the future. It seems to be relatively expensive but then so is long distance transfer.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#26
post #21
post #16

I'm a bit confused. This author makes the future sound bleak, with impossible choices. He makes it sound like wind, solar, geothermal, and hydro will never be enough. But then, you read a quote like this from another source and the solution sounds almost easy: "Less than 1% of the world's deserts, if covered with concentrating solar power plants, could produce as much electricity as the world now uses." http://www.tr…

The main focus of that book is the energy choices facing the UK .

Whilst at the same time being a really good example of how to asses the energy choices facing your own country or region.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#27

I like how he dispenses with the fallacy of saving energy by unplugging DC adapters or TVs by focusing our attention on the high-energy cost activities (heating and transportation). 5 minute shower * (5 gal/min) * (440 BTU [to heat water 85 degrees]/gal ) = 11000 BTU or 3.223kWh or ~16 hours of 200-watt HDTV 1 gallon of gasoline = 115000 BTU or 33.7kWh or 10 5-minute hot showers

5 gal/min? My showerhead is 1.75 gal/min; and, yes, it has plenty of pressure. Also, you don't need to be heating your water to 150 degrees (65 + 85). In fact, that's dangerously hot. Even if you did have your water heater set that high, you'd be diluting the stream substantially with cold water to get it back down to a comfortable temperature. Between these two, it would appear that he's easily off by a factor of 5…

I can't find that MacKay is "off by a factor of 5", as I can't see the that the calculation "wallflower" mentions is actually in the book. It seems to be "wallflowers" calculation.

However, this is what the book encourages. To learn how to make your own calculations and understand the numbers bandied about in the media about energy and energy systems.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ironic thing about bodily hygiene is that room temperature water is as good at killing bacteria as warm or hot water, incidentally its effect is negligible. Soap works better in warmer water, however as more and more people use liquid soaps and hand washes its meaningless as the added surfactants enable it to work just as well at lower temperatures. In fact many liquid soaps are better at removing grease and dirt…

Also, shower shorter. 5 minutes is way more than enough.

Your average guy maybe, but I doubt you'll get too many women or teenage girls to shower inside of 5 minutes, especially if they have long hair. However a shower longer than 10 minutes might as well be a bath as your average tub only needs 60 gals to fill and your average shower pumps out 50 gals in 10 minutes. So if you take your time showering, you might as well take even longer and have a good bath instead.

After all a shower is supposed to be a fast alternative to a bath, if you take forever in a shower you might as well go full hog.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, shower shorter. 5 minutes is way more than enough.

Your average guy maybe, but I doubt you'll get too many women or teenage girls to shower inside of 5 minutes, especially if they have long hair. However a shower longer than 10 minutes might as well be a bath as your average tub only needs 60 gals to fill and your average shower pumps out 50 gals in 10 minutes. So if you take your time showering, you might as well take even longer and have a good bath instead. After…

For some reason I feel a lot cleaner after a shower than after a bath.

Re: "Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air" by David JC MacKay

#30
After 78 pages I now feel somewhat qualified to say something about the book: It seems to be great. I like its non-preachy style and its very limited and seemingly well executed approach of supplying the reader nearly exclusively with baseline numbers. This is what we have – we only have to find out what we can change and how.

I also like that for once I get a realistic and detailed approximation of my energy usage. There are quite a few surprises in there.

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