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Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

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Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#231

Post by ben0x539 »

iamdave wrote: post #217
ben0x539 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you did give that indication, you're constantly framing abuse and harassment of women as a "battle" between two equally positioned sides, incidentally sides where one would be arbitrarily placed in by accident of birth.

If the problem is my choice of the term 'battle', I was borrowing a phrase from game theory: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Battle_of_the_sexes_(game_theory) which I genuinely believe the subject matter has many contextual parallels to. Obviously I do not intend to speak as if the social conversation about sexism in gaming, tech and other industries is an actually even battle where both sides have equal rhetorical or emp…

My problem with the particular phrase 'battle of the sexes' is that invites a reduction in this context that gamergate holds a reasonable male position and Sarkeesian merely holds an equally reasonable female position, and that men can't be blamed for holding the gamergate position and that only women should reasonably hold Sarkeesian's position. I admit I'm ignorant of the game theory allusion you're making.

More generally I fear I don't understand the larger point you're trying to make if you weren't trying to do the "two sides, both have some good points and some bad points, let's ask the peope receiving death threats to sit down with their abusers and find a compromise" truth-is-in-the-middle thing.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#232

Post by Fear-The-N8V »

hotgoldminer wrote: post #195
comrh wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to be hard pressed to get a real citation for the safety thing. The issue is just so complex you can't have a 1 to 1 relationship between concealed carry and crime rates. Some states release CCP numbers though and they're plenty of people doing it.

Any documented instance of concealed carry preventing a crime? Strictly using my imagination, I see far more opportunity for escalation of and accidental violence than for prevention.

There are plenty. People aren't evil by default. Give them more credit.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125342-armed-man-gathers-peo...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqkqzsIjujI

http://bearingarms.com/concealed-carry-permit-holder-stops-s...

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#233

Post by kelvin0 »

CocaKoala wrote: post #208
kelvin0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this subject is emotionally charged for most people. If you read my statements objectively I hope to help you perceive a different perspective, no need to embrace it. I wish you well.

I read your statement objectively. You said that if she had manufactured this crisis, it would be a machiavellian stunt. Can you present even a single shred of evidence that she's manufacturing the crisis? Because until you present that evidence, you're not actually presenting facts that are relevant to the discussion. You might as well say "If she were an alien, this might be part of her plan to take over the world"…

I do not know of any evidence, nor do I wish to investigate if there is any with regards to the 'manufactured' hypothesis. Reading the article, I had a flash of an interesting twist of events (as improbable as it is). This whole debate is not even about her, but how some people could use this scenario to manipulate the public's attention and polarize the discussion. I like considering things from different angles, which I thought was what Hacker News was about in some measure.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#234

Post by smackfu »

teamhappy wrote: post #178
smackfu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how the default male response to a women's problem is almost always, "I will tell you a better way to handle this." Almost a cliché at this point.

Im sorry but that's just wrong. Let's change "default male position" and "almost always" to "feels like it after scrolling though this thread". I also think you confuse offering a second opinion with making an absolute statement. So "I will tell you a better way to handle this" becomes "I think this is a better way to handle this". Sound a lot better, doesn't it? I don't want to put words in your mouth but I also thi…

> I also think you're implying that the male in your example believes his way is better because he's a man and therefore smarter and all that nonsense

Oh, definitely not. I think the guy usually has no idea what he is doing and it's just reflexive behavior.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#235

Post by kelvin0 »

CocaKoala wrote: post #203
kelvin0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice I did not accuse her of anything, simply stating two facts. Why the down votes? All I am saying is that whoever made the threats clearly doesn't want the issue to go away ... Come on guys!

Because you're not stating facts which are relevant. You're saying "If she did [x] it would be [y]". That might be objectively true, but you're not presenting any evidence that she's doing [x] and so it doesn't matter . It's an incredibly obnoxious thing to do, and honestly in this context it's pretty disgusting.

I was not trying to state any of the scenarios I presented as facts. Please do not be disgusted by so little.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#236

Post by DanBC »

sebular wrote: post #228
caligulatte wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'Women as Background Part 2' video was very well-made, and utterly disturbing. I've seen terrible videos and images - it is the Internet afterall- but it was painful to watch. There's a number of games on there that I no longer care to revisit, or even play for the first time. (Also, what were the makers of God of War 3 thinking? Staggers the mind.)

Your comment provoked me to go and watch that video, and watching it clarified this whole issue for me. As someone who's done a reasonable amount of undergraduate-level film and literature analysis, I felt that the video fell quite nicely in line with that style of presentation, and it's clear that Ms. Sarkeesian has a strong background in that area. If this were for an assignment, she would've gotten a perfect score…

You make calm, reasonable, critiques of that video.

You claim other "gamers" will not like her video for the reason you give.

Can you explain how someone moves from "I disagree strongly with some aspects of the video you made" to [insert death threat here]?

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#237

Post by Fear-The-N8V »

ben0x539 wrote: post #199
hnha wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most kindergarden workers female? Would there be no law enforcement if the president was female? I do not see any hint of the sexism you describe here.

Kindergardens tend to host male children and the children of male people. That there has so far not been a female president of the US also demonstrates the sexism you're denying.

You do realize it takes a man and a woman to make a child, yes? That means all children are children of "male people" -otherwise known as Men.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#238

Post by RubyPinch »

Fear-The-N8V wrote: post #232
hotgoldminer wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any documented instance of concealed carry preventing a crime? Strictly using my imagination, I see far more opportunity for escalation of and accidental violence than for prevention.

There are plenty. People aren't evil by default. Give them more credit. http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/125342-armed-man-gathers-peo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqkqzsIjujI http://bearingarms.com/concealed-carry-permit-holder-stops-s...

@ the last link:

I don't think that would fit into the case of "preventing a crime", the guy shot 3 people then started leaving, before he got shot

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#239

Post by iamdave »

ben0x539 wrote: post #231
iamdave wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the problem is my choice of the term 'battle', I was borrowing a phrase from game theory: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Battle_of_the_sexes_(game_theory) which I genuinely believe the subject matter has many contextual parallels to. Obviously I do not intend to speak as if the social conversation about sexism in gaming, tech and other industries is an actually even battle where both sides have equal rhetorical or emp…

My problem with the particular phrase 'battle of the sexes' is that invites a reduction in this context that gamergate holds a reasonable male position and Sarkeesian merely holds an equally reasonable female position, and that men can't be blamed for holding the gamergate position and that only women should reasonably hold Sarkeesian's position. I admit I'm ignorant of the game theory allusion you're making. More ge…

let's ask the peope receiving death threats to sit down with their abusers and find a compromise" truth-is-in-the-middle thing.

Except I never said that. I never insinuated that, if you think that's the case, then it appears you're trying to force your interpretations into my statements, and that's not cool.

Instead, what I've asserted repeatedly is this:

1) Sexism in gaming, tech and other industries needs to be addressed. Absolutely and positively.

2) Many who carry the banner of "Feminist" and many who carry the banner "Gamer" have taken unfortunate and problematic stances, as well as have made unfortunate and problematic statements to get "their" side more validity to the point where taking a side either way carries many severe consequences in the interest of moving a conversation forward.

3) Instead of simply jumping to one side because of how the other side reacts, I personally have decided to abstain from participating further until I see an opportunity where I personally feel comfortable participating and not be accused of being sexist/misogynist/whateverist or otherwise chided for not expressing myself in absolute support.

Is that a little less ambiguous?

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#240

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

bitJericho wrote: post #230
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's fear mongering because it hasn't happened and is incredibly unlikely to happen. Because, why? Again I see no refutement. Just empty words. Two concealed carry owners shoot each other[0]. Concealed carry almost shoots a police officer[1]. Concealed carry shoots the VICTIM in a robbery[2] during a cross-fire with the robbers. [0] http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/19/1239955/-Two-concea... [1] http://www.chic…

Again, none of these were actually two conceal carry shooters accidentally shooting eachother because one thought the other was the criminal. How would you like me to refute that? Shall I find an article titled "Two heros accidentally didn't shoot themselves thinking the other was the criminal." Because that's what I would need to find in order to "refute" your rediculous premise.

> Because that's what I would need to find in order to "refute" your rediculous premise.

That's what I want you to refuse, why my premise is "ridiculous." My examples clearly indicate that concealed carriers are prone to these kind of mistakes. I mean for crying out loud a concealed carrier shot the VICTIM in a robbery!

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