Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat • Hacker News Board

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#101

Post by hga » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #81

pjc50 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently Utah law would make it illegal for them to prevent people from bringing concealed firearms, which is basically a law to maximise casualties from campus shootings.

I legitimately cannot decide what scares me more, the thought of a mass shooting, or the thought of a bunch of "heroes" with a concealed carry cross-firing. Mark my words, one day a mass shooting will occur, someone will pull out their concealed carry, and a second concealed carry person will come around the corner and shoot the first (or the police will). Once there is panic and an unknown threat, adding more guns i…

You know, there's more than a bit of history with this, and it's never come to pass.

For example, of all the recent mass shooting events, only one didn't happen in an ironically official "No Gun Zone", the Arizona congresswoman shooting. Turns out a concealed carrier showed up just as the shooter was getting wrestled to the ground. Surprise, surprise, he didn't shoot.

So you're just libeling people like me. Who you clearly know nothing about.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#102

Post by Xeoncross » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #81

pjc50 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently Utah law would make it illegal for them to prevent people from bringing concealed firearms, which is basically a law to maximise casualties from campus shootings.

I legitimately cannot decide what scares me more, the thought of a mass shooting, or the thought of a bunch of "heroes" with a concealed carry cross-firing. Mark my words, one day a mass shooting will occur, someone will pull out their concealed carry, and a second concealed carry person will come around the corner and shoot the first (or the police will). Once there is panic and an unknown threat, adding more guns i…

Um, more guns is a good thing - that is why we call the police. I think you mean more "skilled"/"trained" gun operators.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#103

Post by tedks » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

cognivore wrote: post #95

"But on Tuesday, the director of the centre and others received an email threatening a "massacre style attack" if the talk proceeded." There is an inherit sexism even in the response to this. If this was an email threat targeting say, a kindergarden, or a presidential visit, there would be federal law inforcement coming down hard looking for the source of the email. The specter of "terrorism" would be most certainly…

Patriarchy means womens' lives are worth less than mens' lives.

White supremacy means a black person's life is worth less than a white person's life.

Homophobia means a queer person's life is worth less than a straight person's life.

Capitalism means a poor person's life is worth less than a rich person's life (but they'll come right out and admit this, so it's not as shocking).

One day I hope humanity will grow out of its adolescence, burn away the waste that is GamerGate and the Westboro Baptist Church and weev and all the nazis, all the neckbeards, all the Koch Brothers everywhere, and become something beautiful.

I'm not holding my breath though.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#104

Post by untog » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

bitJericho wrote: post #93

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I legitimately cannot decide what scares me more, the thought of a mass shooting, or the thought of a bunch of "heroes" with a concealed carry cross-firing. Mark my words, one day a mass shooting will occur, someone will pull out their concealed carry, and a second concealed carry person will come around the corner and shoot the first (or the police will). Once there is panic and an unknown threat, adding more guns i…

Yep, that sounds like normal fear-mongering to me.

Not really. Even trained police officers often hurt bystanders when firing their weapons:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/nyregion/bystanders-shooti...

If a trained cop does it, I think it is legitimate to be concerned about a member of the public firing their weapon, no matter what their intent.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#105

Post by munificent » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

JayOtter wrote: post #6

dominotw wrote: post #2

Never heard of her before. Why is she so famous to elicit such an extreme reaction ?

She runs a show called 'Feminist Frequency', dedicated to calling out sexist tropes in video games (amongst other things). She appears to have become one of the enemies of the movement known as "#GamerGate". Proponents of the movement will tell you it's about ethics in game journalism, but in reality it seems to have largely become corrupted by misogyny and the like. Several female game developers and journalists hav…

> She appears to have become one of the enemies of the movement known as "#GamerGate".

I believe she's been receiving harassment and death threats from well before the recent "gamergate" stuff.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#106

Post by UnoriginalGuy » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

bitJericho wrote: post #93

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I legitimately cannot decide what scares me more, the thought of a mass shooting, or the thought of a bunch of "heroes" with a concealed carry cross-firing. Mark my words, one day a mass shooting will occur, someone will pull out their concealed carry, and a second concealed carry person will come around the corner and shoot the first (or the police will). Once there is panic and an unknown threat, adding more guns i…

Yep, that sounds like normal fear-mongering to me.

Then it should be easy to refute, right? Here's the scenario:

People are screaming, someone is shooting, you don't know who. You see bodies on the ground, they're bleeding. Then you see someone come around the corner holding a handgun out, they are dressed like a student, you draw your concealed carry and out of fear for your own life you shoot that person. Turns out both you and them are concealed carry. Opps.

Explain why that scenario is unlikely/won't happen/can't happen. If it is "fear mongering" that should be trivial for you.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#107

Post by kibwen » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:14 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #56

retrocombine wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are people promoting harassment and calling people cunts in your movement's name, then? That comes off as the opposite of level-headed and respectful. One rotten apple spoils the whole barrel.

This might surprise you to know but there is no way to control who participates in a movement. GG has made clear from square one that this kind of behavior is totally unacceptable. If someone goes ahead and acts like a fool anyways, what exactly do you want everyone else to do? The best that can be done is banning such people from participating in the discussion forums, but this doesn't control whatever they decide t…

You're mistaken if you think that decentralized movements cannot be trivially co-opted. By their very nature, they are controlled by those who speak the loudest and command the largest audience.

So I must ask, who on your side of the #GamerGate hashtag speaks louder and and commands more followers than Adam Baldwin?

If you do not possess the social capital to overpower the voices of unabashed harassers, then your continued association with the hashtag only damages your cause.

(Note that I speak as someone who once worked in games "journalism" and is completely fed up with how shitty it is (not that the games industry at large is really giving me much to hope for).)

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#108

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:14 PM UTC

kmfrk wrote: post #97

idlewords wrote: post #16

Before this was cancelled, Utah State University police announced "enhanced security measures will now be in place, which include prohibiting backpacks and any large bags." But anyone who had a permit to carry a concealed firearm would be allowed to bring it to the venue. I guess the theory is that anyone targeting Ms. Sarkeesian would have gone down in a hail of patriot bullets, but she wisely decided not to test th…

Yep; it was not the massacre threat but the refusal to deny concealed carry that prompted Anita to cancel her event. The title implies a wrong causality like that. I can't imagine attending an event where people could carry concealed weapon, even as completely average dude.

I'm guessing you don't know many folks who carry? Off-duty police, former military, parents and plumbers. Not a lot to fear. In fact lots of cases its been shown to be safer to have such folks around.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#109

Post by chippy » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:15 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #71

chippy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a difference about speaking out about harassment in general and going against the recommendations of the police who should be dealing with a specific threat. I agree though, it's certainly not "bathing in the outrage" at all. Perhaps the added attention to a cause, perhaps the added news coverage is worth going against the advice of professionals when it comes to direct threats to the safety of onesel…

Who is going against whose recommendations, and in what way? Sarkeesian chose to not attend because she feared for her safety. Legally, the police could not prevent people from brining concealed weapons, and she did not feel safe. Your comment implies that she is somehow ignoring advice that would promote her safety, in order to gain more exposure. I don't see that happening.

Ahh, well the presumption is that the Police would say something like "please don't share these threats with the internet, just leave it with us". I would imagine that is what they would say. The logic being that it just gives the harassers more fuel. I'd hope that the police were being sensitive and helpful in this case.

I imagine that the police did not give any recommendations about the event, that they neither suggested she cancel or to go ahead.

My comment was asking questions about why someone would choose to publicise active threats against their person, assuming that police would have warned against it. I can imagine some scenarios where someone would choose to go against those recommendations - I imagine things must be very stressful and fraught.

Perhaps with Twitter, any threats are already public and so there could be no point not sharing them? Perhaps there is greater value in highlighting the online abuse and having a large amount of online support for ones cause than suffering in silence and trusting ones fate to the professionals?

I think our online networks are sorely missing effective abuse filters and controls.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#110

Post by Crito » Wed, Oct 15, 2014, 4:16 PM UTC

kmfrk wrote: post #97

idlewords wrote: post #16

Before this was cancelled, Utah State University police announced "enhanced security measures will now be in place, which include prohibiting backpacks and any large bags." But anyone who had a permit to carry a concealed firearm would be allowed to bring it to the venue. I guess the theory is that anyone targeting Ms. Sarkeesian would have gone down in a hail of patriot bullets, but she wisely decided not to test th…

Yep; it was not the massacre threat but the refusal to deny concealed carry that prompted Anita to cancel her event. The title implies a wrong causality like that. I can't imagine attending an event where people could carry concealed weapon, even as completely average dude.

> I can't imagine attending an event where people could carry concealed weapon

Have you ever been to America? If so, you have almost certainly already attended countless events where somebody in the audience had a gun. The staggering majority of the time there are no incidents, so it is easy to overlook this.