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Everyone knows it’s broken

tiltthewindmill.com

21–25 of 25 posts

Re: Everyone knows it’s broken

#21
I've never understood why people put up with the ridiculous fees banks are charging these days. My credit union charges me one $5 fee per year, and I have checking, savings, overdraft protection, an ATM Visa check-card, Visa credit card, a free bill-pay service, and a smartphone app that can do mobile check deposits. Plus, my mortgage rate is lower than any local bank offered.

All local credit unions share each other's fee-free ATMs, and I still have several nearby branches I can visit when I need a real person. In addition, they are rapidly growing not in spite of these consumer-friendly practices, but because of them.

Why would anyone choose a Wall Street bank other than for something gimmicky like a rewards credit card or non-traditional loan?

Re: Everyone knows it’s broken

#22

One of the things about modern electronic payment systems that weirds me out is how easy it is to lose everything. If the government takes my money, there's process. Not always transparent, but supposedly hewing to some legal process. If the bank goes under then, in theory, I get back some portion of my deposits thanks to insurance (not always the case, some banks for rich people don't have insurance, but presumably…

> The above is a gross oversimplification, but I don't think its wrong in that

That does seem like a gross oversimplification.

First and foremost, I'd say that there is nothing inherently unique about recourse when a bank goes bankrupt. It's merely based on conventions and contracts. How that works is that there's an insurance corporation, the federal deposit insurance corporation, which insures deposits at banks up to $250k. That's all. Of course, this isn't free. It's costing all of us money, as any insurance does.

What this means is that you can build any type of system and throw an insurance product on top and it'd be no different. There's nothing unique about FDIC.

Of course, we must realize also that FDIC insurance only covers about 1%, at most 2%, of deposits. So it's only really effective when a few banks go bankrupt. A complete systemic meltdown that we were very close to would've made FDIC useless. Fact is, the only reason that didn't happen is because we magically created a trillion dollars out of thin air to create magic demand for toxic assets nobody wanted and were causing imminent bankruptcies. And that, too, comes with a price to ordinary citizens. Nothing special about it, and it's certainly costing us all money.

As for Paypal? It's regulated to death. In some places it's regulated like a bank. In other places it's regulated as a money transmitter, as a money services business, as a non-bank financial institution. All of those carry real regulatory obligations. For example, there's a law where a money services business can't do fractional reserve, i.e. you're by law required to keep 100% of your custodial funds (funds from customers that you hold). There's another requirement that requires you to separate company funds from custodial funds, meaning if your company goes bankrupt, the customer funds are untouched. As for Paypal simply 'taking your money', that's illegal, and you have legal recourse. That may not be perfect, I'm not saying it is, but it's similarly imperfect as when the police seize your funds. In both case you have legal resource, Paypal is not unique in being above the law.

And then lastly, there's surety bonds. So in virtually every state Paypal operates, it needs to hold sufficient surety bonds. That means, literally, insurance. They pay every year some company which insures them, so that if say they go bankrupt or flee the country, this company has a surety bond for the customers to get paid out.

And lastly, a non-legal point, but just a practical one: Paypal is worth a lot of money, the 150m users are worth a lot of money. That doesn't mean they can't go bankrupt, but unless they're knee-deep into complex derivatives they don't understand, like banks the past decade, I'd say the chances of them disappearing with everyone's money is pretty slim. Not saying it won't happen, just saying it wouldn't be a reason for me not ever use Paypal.

Re: Everyone knows it’s broken

#23
post #2

This isn't as complicated as it looks. The services around time deposits (providing a checking account, processing transactions, balance inquiries, ATMs) are not that expensive to provide relative to the profits made lending that money back out. The reason for the explosion of fees is that retail banking in America, as an industry, lost its mind in the 2000s. Every bank brand massively increased its numbers of branch…

I respectfully disagree - or at least another perspective: The core earnings of a retail banking operation is net interest margin - essentially the spread between what the bank pays depositors and is paid on loans. That spread has been in a pretty negative downtrend http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/USNIM/ . However, that is for all banks (think BofA as well as you local 1st national whatever), so my guess…

The "fixed cost" of the branch network is an illusion created by the high fees.

Regulation and a less friendly lending environment showed us who's swimming naked with over-extended branch networks: everyone

Re: Everyone knows it’s broken

#24
The article made a very important point:

   Modern bank customers ... want their banking
   history, in escrow, stored by a third party
   where it acts as inarguable proof.
Without paper statements, if you close a bank account for whatever reason, then you lose access to your banking history for that entire time. Poof, gone. How long will a bank continue to allow you to log into their system once you are no longer a customer?

Re: Everyone knows it’s broken

#25

You've probably all read it already, but the best thing about this article was the link to the venmo discussion: http://qz.com/277509/read-what-happens-when-a-bunch-of-over-...

Who cares about social? It's convenient to be able to pay people electronically. You can turn sharing on and off.

Sure there's a generation gap on privacy, but that's totally tangential to value the service has.

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