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Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

theatlantic.com

21–30 of 55 posts

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#21

I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we are. As a recently minted homeowner myself, I must say I can see the attraction of apartment living more than I could before. This house is a lot nicer and bigger than our apartment was, but damned if I'm not having to replace the sewer line, the patio, and va…

Because they are a really social society, the Spanish think of their neighbors as an asset not a liability and they also highly value being within walking distance to social meeting places like bars and restaurants (which encourages higher density housing). Then there is the cultural aspect of being owners not renters as the article goes into in detail.

As a Spaniard now living in the inner suburbs of Melbourne, I have a good view into both ways of living. My wife likes to say that we live closer to shops than she's ever lived, and farther from shops than I've ever lived.

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#22

I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we are. As a recently minted homeowner myself, I must say I can see the attraction of apartment living more than I could before. This house is a lot nicer and bigger than our apartment was, but damned if I'm not having to replace the sewer line, the patio, and va…

I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for

I too find it fascinating and I too live in a large apartment building, but a lot of other Americans would too if it were legal to build those apartment buildings. Matt Yglesias explains why in The Rent is Too Damn High (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=...), but the short version is that cities forbid taller buildings through height restrictions and parking minimums in order to protect the property values of existing owners by limiting housing supply.

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#23
post #11

I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we are. As a recently minted homeowner myself, I must say I can see the attraction of apartment living more than I could before. This house is a lot nicer and bigger than our apartment was, but damned if I'm not having to replace the sewer line, the patio, and va…

> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for As someone who spent the majority of their early childhood (ages 3 to 9) in such a house, then lived in an apartment in a city (without an elevator on top floor), I never understood why anyone would want a house. What do you even do with that much space? I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio and I don't h…

>I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio

I guess I've got you beat for efficient living then? I live with my wife and our 4 kids in a 3030 sq. ft. home, which then works out to 505 sq. ft. per person. Also it depends on where you live, but in some areas it is cheaper to buy than rent, because you are just cutting out the middle man known as a landlord. Or I guess you can think of yourself as your own landlord.

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#24
post #16
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for As someone who spent the majority of their early childhood (ages 3 to 9) in such a house, then lived in an apartment in a city (without an elevator on top floor), I never understood why anyone would want a house. What do you even do with that much space? I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio and I don't h…

I'd be happy in a flat or a house. The right space is more important. I live in a small 2 bedroom house and I wish I just had a tiny 2m square study, somewhere which was my own space where I could e.g. safely leave my soldering iron set up and my kids wouldn't mess with it. Also my kids share a room and they don't have enough space to play Lego without having to put it away at the end of the day. I would really like…

>Also my kids share a room and they don't have enough space to play Lego without having to put it away at the end of the day

Having a safe spot for the soldering iron sounds like a good idea, but as far as putting away legos goes ... do you really want to teach your kids not to clean up after themselves? Those sorts of habits spill over.

Always putting things in their rightful place has been one of the most important lessons I've ever learned. That way your place is always tidy and you never have to explicitly do any tidying up.

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#25
post #23
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for As someone who spent the majority of their early childhood (ages 3 to 9) in such a house, then lived in an apartment in a city (without an elevator on top floor), I never understood why anyone would want a house. What do you even do with that much space? I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio and I don't h…

>I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio I guess I've got you beat for efficient living then? I live with my wife and our 4 kids in a 3030 sq. ft. home, which then works out to 505 sq. ft. per person. Also it depends on where you live, but in some areas it is cheaper to buy than rent, because you are just cutting out the middle man known as a landlord. Or I guess you can think of yourself as your own lan…

Well, yes. Cohabitation is always more efficient than living on your own. And the difference per head is essentially just 5m^2, I bet my balcony that's almost useless takes up about that much.

And renting or buying, I would always go for an apartment. I just do not understand houses. If I wanted more room, I'd go for a bigger apartment ... like those fancy 2400+ft^2 two-storey apartments.

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#26
post #12

I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we are. As a recently minted homeowner myself, I must say I can see the attraction of apartment living more than I could before. This house is a lot nicer and bigger than our apartment was, but damned if I'm not having to replace the sewer line, the patio, and va…

> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for, the Spanish are happier with their housing situations than we are. Why would American standards matter to how satisfied Spaniards are? This sentence in isolation seems weird. Is there a wider context?

The wider context is that in any post about any topic someone at HN finds a way to take a shot at something American.

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#27
post #23
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it fascinating that despite not having the house+back yard that many Americans strive for As someone who spent the majority of their early childhood (ages 3 to 9) in such a house, then lived in an apartment in a city (without an elevator on top floor), I never understood why anyone would want a house. What do you even do with that much space? I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio and I don't h…

>I live in a very comfortable 52m^2 (560 ft^2) studio I guess I've got you beat for efficient living then? I live with my wife and our 4 kids in a 3030 sq. ft. home, which then works out to 505 sq. ft. per person. Also it depends on where you live, but in some areas it is cheaper to buy than rent, because you are just cutting out the middle man known as a landlord. Or I guess you can think of yourself as your own lan…

The solution to "it is cheaper to buy than rent" is to buy a condo or co-op. It's still an apartment, but it's not a rental.

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#28
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are a really social society, the Spanish think of their neighbors as an asset not a liability and they also highly value being within walking distance to social meeting places like bars and restaurants (which encourages higher density housing). Then there is the cultural aspect of being owners not renters as the article goes into in detail.

I'm a Spaniard and I can't agree more!! Yes, we love to be near bars, restaurants, terraces, small-medium supermarkets you can buy fresh food daily, use public transportation instead of depending on the car, have nearby parks to play sports, good public schools... Also usually our family and friends live nearby. That's very important for us. Also, many people used to choose their apartment in a walking distance from…

It sounds like Montreal, too. I miss it.

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, this is exactly correct. The buildings here in Valencia are 6-10 floors on average.

An elevator serving 50 stories should count more than one stopping at only 10 stories. A better measure would be total elevator stops but as usual you are stuck with the available data - especially difficult to overcome with mult-country data like this.

I don't remember a place where a single elevator serves 50 floors

I've seen buildings where each elevator (set) covered around 12 floors (+ ground floor). This was for a building with +/- 40 floors

Re: Why Does Spain Have the World's Highest Concentration of Elevators?

#30
The article also forgets a lot of second order effects that affect much of Spanish home ownership.

For instance, Franco's rental laws have been weakened, but not by that much. Even when you could theoretically get evicted, a savvy lawyer can easily extend a renter's stay at an apartment, without really paying a dime, for about a year without facing eviction.

There's also pretty weak protections for renters whenever an apartment is vandalized by its occupants. It is not uncommon to hear stories about tens of thousands of euros of damage deal to apartments as retaliation to an eviction.

There's also rent controls that make San Francisco seem like a libertarian's wet dream. The longer you hold an apartment, the less likely than you'll want to leave, and the less profitable it is to the owner.

Such legal frameworks make apartment buildings that are built and designed for renters, managed by a company, to be an exception rather than the rule. There's just too much risk to take something like this on. So most rentals are really by people that own 4, 5 apartments, and select the renter's very, very carefully. For instance, my sister got a rather good deal a few years ago on a little apartment for her and her husband, she was pregnant at the time. The reason the price was so good was precisely that she offered an extremely low risk for the owner: The apartment will get too small for my sister's family by the time the kids stop being toddlers, she has great family references, and her job requires her to have a good public reputation. So she is a very small risk of staying there for very long, of damaging the apartment, and of becoming delinquent. A recent college graduate born in a different state and with a job would not be able to get the same deal, because of the different risk profile.

Another part that it's not mentioned in the article is when your average Spaniard stops living with his parents. Unlike in the US, when adolescents move out of the house to go to college, many Spaniards will live with their parents until they get married, and Spaniards don't marry young. This makes the share of owned houses pretty high indeed, as living with mom does not count as renting.

Spain's cities are extremely comfortable to live in, if you happen to have a job, so I do not expect the number of elevators to change. Number of renters, on the other hand, could be changed pretty quickly by legislation: Protecting renters actually makes renting harder!

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