DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn • Hacker News Board

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#41

Post by yebyen » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:00 PM UTC

X-Istence wrote: post #8

How is it okay for source code that enables infringement but does not infringe itself to be taken down by a DMCA request? The claimant in this case doesn't own any of the rights to the software yet wants it removed anyway ...

I could see a way in which the anti-circumvention provisions that prohibit any distribution of tools which enable the circumvention of access controls could be interpreted to enable action against or prohibition of PopcornTime distros.

You have to squint and let the screen go a bit blurry to see it, but I wouldn't count on getting a judge that sees it the other way if I was GitHub. I've always interpreted "access controls" to mean a specific "technological measure" such as CSS encryption, but in a very broad sense the law does allow for tools that don't have any particular copyrighted works in them to be considered illegal and rulings that would disallow their dissemination.

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#42

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:01 PM UTC

BoppreH wrote: post #33

sarahj wrote: post #14

> Attached as Exhibit A is a series of screenshots taken from within the applications of each Project that includes images of copyrighted works available through the Projects. The representative titles shown in Exhibit A consist of only some of the motion pictures and television programs that are owned or controlled by the MPAA Member Studios and that are being infringed via the Projects. Exhibit A is provided as a r…

With those applications you can get from clean install to playing a copyrighted movie in three clicks. You don't do that with a web browser. Also, they are meant to be used that way. When people recommend those applications to friends and relatives they are meant to be used for copyright infringement. I'm not agreeing with what was done here, but there is a qualitative difference between a torrent client, media playe…

[deleted]

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#43

Post by eli » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:02 PM UTC

A lot of people seem unaware of the "Anti-Circumvention" provisions of the DMCA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention#United_State...

It's illegal to publish tools that have "limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent [copyright restrictions]"

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#44

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:02 PM UTC

sarahj wrote: post #14

> Attached as Exhibit A is a series of screenshots taken from within the applications of each Project that includes images of copyrighted works available through the Projects. The representative titles shown in Exhibit A consist of only some of the motion pictures and television programs that are owned or controlled by the MPAA Member Studios and that are being infringed via the Projects. Exhibit A is provided as a r…

[deleted]

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#45

Post by _yfoe » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:02 PM UTC

jenandre wrote: post #26

It seems to still be available from popcorntime.io in a local Stash repo: https://git.popcorntime.io/stash/projects

The .io project is a different fork from the original project than the one referred to by this post.

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#46

Post by Fuzzwah » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:02 PM UTC

BoppreH wrote: post #33

sarahj wrote: post #14

> Attached as Exhibit A is a series of screenshots taken from within the applications of each Project that includes images of copyrighted works available through the Projects. The representative titles shown in Exhibit A consist of only some of the motion pictures and television programs that are owned or controlled by the MPAA Member Studios and that are being infringed via the Projects. Exhibit A is provided as a r…

With those applications you can get from clean install to playing a copyrighted movie in three clicks. You don't do that with a web browser. Also, they are meant to be used that way. When people recommend those applications to friends and relatives they are meant to be used for copyright infringement. I'm not agreeing with what was done here, but there is a qualitative difference between a torrent client, media playe…

I haven't installed or used popcorn time.

I can't see how the number of clicks to install it and start watching a copyrighted movie could be less than required to install a web browser and start watching a copyrighted movie.

Surely they're both: click to download -> click to run installer -> click to start watching the movie....

Like I said, I have no experience doing that in popcorn time, but I can 100% say I could do that in a browser.

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#47

Post by SCHiM » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:03 PM UTC

sarahj wrote: post #31

vlunkr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say where the line is, but popcorn time seems to be in a different category than torrent clients, etc. in that popcorn time just gives you a list of copyright protected movies in its interface. With a torrent, you have to get a seed file elsewhere which could potentially be anything. It could be dangerous though, to start banning tools like this without defining a difference. That's why this is troubling, bec…

I'll extend my hypothetical. Lets say there are two groups. One group builds a generic media client - under the guise of better delivery of free educational videos (MIT lectures etc.) The other group sets up "Movie Copyright Watch" and publishes an up-to-date list of movie torrents - under the guise of occasionally reporting this list back to MPAA and the like. Now lets say team A decide to adopt the same configurati…

"it is crazy to ban knives because you can stab people with them."

That's true when looking at kitchen knifes, but to stretch your analogy: popcorn time is to other media applications as GI Joe's Combat knife is to other knives. It's not made to butter your bread: it's made to stab people.

Popcorn time was made specifically to infringe, that's not to say that the copyright system is not hopelessly broken, but imo this is a legitimate takedown notice.

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#48

Post by Fuzzwah » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:04 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #40

BoppreH wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With those applications you can get from clean install to playing a copyrighted movie in three clicks. You don't do that with a web browser. Also, they are meant to be used that way. When people recommend those applications to friends and relatives they are meant to be used for copyright infringement. I'm not agreeing with what was done here, but there is a qualitative difference between a torrent client, media playe…

Right. This is the money sentence: > Indeed, copyright infringement is so prevalent within the Projects that infringement plainly is their predominant use and purpose. "Predominant use and purpose" is one of the tests for whether software is copyright-infringing under DMCA. IANAL but this looks pretty open-and-shut to me.

You're on the money here.

Of course "predominant use and purpose" eventually boils down to "I know it when I see it" [1]

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#49

Post by chc » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:05 PM UTC

Fuzzwah wrote: post #46

BoppreH wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With those applications you can get from clean install to playing a copyrighted movie in three clicks. You don't do that with a web browser. Also, they are meant to be used that way. When people recommend those applications to friends and relatives they are meant to be used for copyright infringement. I'm not agreeing with what was done here, but there is a qualitative difference between a torrent client, media playe…

I haven't installed or used popcorn time. I can't see how the number of clicks to install it and start watching a copyrighted movie could be less than required to install a web browser and start watching a copyrighted movie. Surely they're both: click to download -> click to run installer -> click to start watching the movie.... Like I said, I have no experience doing that in popcorn time, but I can 100% say I could…

If there exists a browser which, when freshly installed, starts playing infringing content as soon as you launch it, that would probably get in trouble too. But no mainstream browser does that.

Re: DMCA Takedown Notice for Popcorn Time and Time4Popcorn

#50

Post by aqme28 » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 9:05 PM UTC

BoppreH wrote: post #33

sarahj wrote: post #14

> Attached as Exhibit A is a series of screenshots taken from within the applications of each Project that includes images of copyrighted works available through the Projects. The representative titles shown in Exhibit A consist of only some of the motion pictures and television programs that are owned or controlled by the MPAA Member Studios and that are being infringed via the Projects. Exhibit A is provided as a r…

With those applications you can get from clean install to playing a copyrighted movie in three clicks. You don't do that with a web browser. Also, they are meant to be used that way. When people recommend those applications to friends and relatives they are meant to be used for copyright infringement. I'm not agreeing with what was done here, but there is a qualitative difference between a torrent client, media playe…

Google "[moviename] streaming". Click a link, hit play.