Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women • Hacker News Board

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#51

Post by uvTwitch » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:27 AM UTC

kaonashi wrote: post #45

uvTwitch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way to tell the story. Here's another: Zoe's disgruntled ex-partner decided to publicly air a lot of dirty laundry after he'd discovered she'd been unfaithful to him. This is childish behavior, but the thing that caught people's attention was his claim that she'd intentionally slept with the editors of gaming publications to receive positive coverage, which turned out to be true. Caught with their pants do…

Sounds like a lot of female sexuality policing to me. I'd be ashamed to have my name anywhere near it.

It has nothing to do with her actions - the complaints are aimed at the journalists who accepted sex in exchange for coverage, as well as the numerous other journalists who have demonstrably low integrity and poor ethics.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#52

Post by modfodder » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:28 AM UTC

uvTwitch wrote: post #36

acdha wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem: #gamergate started as part of a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn, closely following a round of attacks on Anita Sarkeesian[1] by many of the same people. The journalism bit was a valid issue latter adopted as a shield against criticism from the attacks at those women, several journalists and anyone else who spoke up against the abuse. Then they jumped in bed with the Breitbart crew, who were…

That's one way to tell the story. Here's another: Zoe's disgruntled ex-partner decided to publicly air a lot of dirty laundry after he'd discovered she'd been unfaithful to him. This is childish behavior, but the thing that caught people's attention was his claim that she'd intentionally slept with the editors of gaming publications to receive positive coverage, which turned out to be true. Caught with their pants do…

It's not true that she slept with editors to receive positive coverage. The ONE writer she became involved with did not write any reviews of her game and the only article he did write was written before they became an item.

The fact that you choose to lie about this fact shows that you are perfectly happy with your role as a cog in the harassment campaign. Gamergate is a hate campaign that you are participating in.

As for the #gamergate hashtag, after its first use by Adam it was quickly taken over by several people on 4-chan to attack Zoe, so it was helmed by someone. see http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/new-chat-logs-show-how...

in a response below you state: "it was about the journalists who had accepted sex, and reciprocated with positive coverage." Yet there has never been any proof of this, because it didn't happen. She started a relationship with a writer and received no positive coverage from it. You continue to state lies that have been proven false.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#53

Post by acdha » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:29 AM UTC

mkal_tsr wrote: post #48

ioquake3 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely false. There was no coverage that was slanted for her free game after she supposedly slept with anyone. This is not about ethics, if it were that would have been an issue when BIG publishers started paying youtubers to cover games without any negative language. Or any of the other actual scandals. Not when ONE indie game developer happened to have some dirty laundry aired by an asshole.

You mean like when TotalBiscuit called out Shadows of Mordor and then Boogie reported that publishers are changing their contracts?

Notice how quickly the #gamergate contingent dropped that to go back to talking how Anita/Zoe/Brianna totally deserved it and how gamers are being oppressed by a vast SJW conspiracy?

This is not what a real campaign to improve journalistic ethics looks like.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#54

Post by imanaccount247 » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:31 AM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #32

imanaccount247 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>instead of rallying behind one that was created to attack one woman for completely made-up crimes against journalism? I've seen this statement quite a lot, where exactly are people getting this idea from? #gamergate was started by Adam Baldwin, specifically to address corruption in games journalism and the collusion of media outlets in trying to silence discussion of it. The roots of it go back to /v/ having been co…

> I've seen this statement quite a lot, where exactly are people getting this idea from? #gamergate was started by Adam Baldwin, specifically to address corruption in games journalism and the collusion of media outlets in trying to silence discussion of it. The specific instance of "corruption" that touched it off was Zoe Quinn allegedly trading sex for good reviews, which was 100% bullshit. But let's assume you're r…

>The specific instance of "corruption" that touched it off was Zoe Quinn allegedly trading sex for good reviews,

It was more the "lying about being harassed by a forum of depressed people to stir up publicity for her game about depression" really.

>Why cling to a name that is--perhaps wrongfully--heavily associated with vicious misogyny in the public perception?

What good would changing the name do? The media that they are against will continue to spread lies about them regardless of the name they choose. This sounds an awful lot like "stop calling yourself feminists because the name has been corrupted by radicals". No, people who oppose the group just want to dishonestly paint them in a bad light. They will continue doing so no matter what the label.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#55

Post by fenomas » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:33 AM UTC

Just a meta-question, but is there some kind of flagging/downvoting system on HN that's hidden to newer users? It seems odd that this thread quickly fell off the top page, below older posts with fewer upvotes.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#56

Post by uvTwitch » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:34 AM UTC

BryantD wrote: post #42

uvTwitch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way to tell the story. Here's another: Zoe's disgruntled ex-partner decided to publicly air a lot of dirty laundry after he'd discovered she'd been unfaithful to him. This is childish behavior, but the thing that caught people's attention was his claim that she'd intentionally slept with the editors of gaming publications to receive positive coverage, which turned out to be true. Caught with their pants do…

"the thing that caught people's attention was his claim that she'd intentionally slept with the editors of gaming publications to receive positive coverage, which turned out to be true." No, this is not true. Here are the ways in which it isn't true: - You're claiming that Zoe Quinn slept with people for the purpose of positive coverage (as opposed to, say, pleasure). There's no evidence of this. - She didn't sleep w…

The video-capped facebook chatlogs and her own admissions were evidence enough for me.

However, she is not important.

What is important is the poor behaviour of the journalists. That is what the focus is, that is what's been called into question, that is what people are angry about.

The only people still talking about women's sex lives are the anti-gamergate crowd, trying to smear the movement.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#57

Post by mkal_tsr » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:36 AM UTC

acdha wrote: post #53

mkal_tsr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like when TotalBiscuit called out Shadows of Mordor and then Boogie reported that publishers are changing their contracts?

Notice how quickly the #gamergate contingent dropped that to go back to talking how Anita/Zoe/Brianna totally deserved it and how gamers are being oppressed by a vast SJW conspiracy? This is not what a real campaign to improve journalistic ethics looks like.

Can you name me everyone in the "#gamergate contingent" as well as all tweets between the time SoM issue was announced and when Boogie mentioned the "resolution" (in the name of contract changes). I recommend pastebin for large lists.

If not, I would ask ... why has this -> gamergateharassment.tumblr.com [1] are ethical and that GamerGate is only a harassment campaign.

Also, I think things get a bit more messy when the same journalists involved in the issue use their parent companies to shield themselves from criticism. Unless you forgot that time that P.H. smeared Stardock and Cards against Humanity on flimsy "evidence" and then when the same level of evidence comes up about someone else, it's deemed irrelevant. Here I thought being ethical was applying equal standards to people, guess I was wrong.

So, in that case, please explain why Grayson did not need to mention his relationships, or why the Wizardchan harassment was never clarified in a new article (to correct offending publications), or why allegations against Wardell and Tempkin were published (multiple times) as "relevant to the industry" whereas another developer is not.

Where is the exact line? Please fully describe the line in detail so all reading this comment thread can clearly see Grayson, Hernandez, Kotaku et al have not violated any ethics standards and treat all stories and persons equally, and they have not contributed to harassment.

[1] http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com/

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#58

Post by aikah » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:37 AM UTC

acdha wrote: post #26

uvTwitch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This narrative you're pushing here is a very hard sell considering this is one of their most prominent banners: http://www.nichegamer.net/media/2014/09/gamergate.jpg Being the interenet, there are naturally aggressive and violent people who will throw harassment around. With regard to this issue, it is downright false to claim that they originate from, or are encouraged by, any one camp, as there are examples of hara…

Here's the problem: #gamergate started as part of a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn, closely following a round of attacks on Anita Sarkeesian[1] by many of the same people. The journalism bit was a valid issue latter adopted as a shield against criticism from the attacks at those women, several journalists and anyone else who spoke up against the abuse. Then they jumped in bed with the Breitbart crew, who were…

> #gamergate started as part of a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn

The problem has never been about Zoe Quinn.She can f$ck whoever she wants.

The issue is so called "game journalists" f$cking Zoe Quinn then writing articles about her praising her work,funding her through Patreon,and not disclosing the fact that they are also f$cking her.

The issue is "game journalists" colluding in google groups to push a leftwing political agenda that has NOTHING to do with gaming,not even because they believe in that agenda,but because they profit from it directly. This "webpress" has basically become a PAC,there is no difference.The way they opperate,the way they are funded,they have a plateform and they use it to push political bullshit.

It's about corruption.It's about a small elite of journalists and crooks, that knows each other,conspire to drive a political agenda,that is fundamentally extreme and is hurting the independent gaming industry and the independent gaming press.

And yes even leftism or feminism can be as extreme as conservatism or any -ism.

That's all.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#59

Post by imanaccount247 » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:39 AM UTC

acdha wrote: post #53

mkal_tsr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like when TotalBiscuit called out Shadows of Mordor and then Boogie reported that publishers are changing their contracts?

Notice how quickly the #gamergate contingent dropped that to go back to talking how Anita/Zoe/Brianna totally deserved it and how gamers are being oppressed by a vast SJW conspiracy? This is not what a real campaign to improve journalistic ethics looks like.

No, I haven't noticed that. In fact, discussion of anita and zoe is banned on most gamergate forums because of throwaway accounts being made to try to stir up shit about them. What I have noticed is their campaigns to get advertisers to pull ad campaigns from corrupt websites. Looks like a real campaign to improve journalistic ethics to me.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#60

Post by uvTwitch » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 4:42 AM UTC

modfodder wrote: post #52

uvTwitch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way to tell the story. Here's another: Zoe's disgruntled ex-partner decided to publicly air a lot of dirty laundry after he'd discovered she'd been unfaithful to him. This is childish behavior, but the thing that caught people's attention was his claim that she'd intentionally slept with the editors of gaming publications to receive positive coverage, which turned out to be true. Caught with their pants do…

It's not true that she slept with editors to receive positive coverage. The ONE writer she became involved with did not write any reviews of her game and the only article he did write was written before they became an item. The fact that you choose to lie about this fact shows that you are perfectly happy with your role as a cog in the harassment campaign. Gamergate is a hate campaign that you are participating in. A…

She herself stated that it was her reason for sleeping with them, in the video-capped facebook chatlogs her ex posted. That was enough evidence for me to believe the claims.

Her actions aren't important, however. Gamergate the movement generally wants people to stop focusing on women's sex lives, and pay more attention to the actions of the journalists involved.

You're quite quick to accuse me of harassment and hate. That a hashtag was hijacked hardly discredits it's original intent. Those hijackers, and any since, have quickly been condemned by people who simply want journalists to have integrity and ethical standards.

If the websites had simply stated that yes, having a conflict of interest with the subjects we write about is poor ethical behavior and we will do things to change this, the campaign wouldn't have taken off at all. Instead of simply addressing gamergate's legitimate complaints, they are still trying to discredit the movement, which serves only to fuel the fire, and ironically, destroy their ad revenue due to sponsors pulling out.