Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women • Hacker News Board

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#21

Post by imanaccount247 » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:36 AM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #13

uvTwitch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This narrative you're pushing here is a very hard sell considering this is one of their most prominent banners: http://www.nichegamer.net/media/2014/09/gamergate.jpg Being the interenet, there are naturally aggressive and violent people who will throw harassment around. With regard to this issue, it is downright false to claim that they originate from, or are encouraged by, any one camp, as there are examples of hara…

It's great that you're interested in promoting journalistic integrity, and not in attacking women. Why, then, don't you start a movement that can credibly claim to support those goals, instead of rallying behind one that was created to attack one woman for completely made-up crimes against journalism? I would love to see someone do this. Corruption in games journalism is a real problem. But it's not a problem that I'…

>instead of rallying behind one that was created to attack one woman for completely made-up crimes against journalism?

I've seen this statement quite a lot, where exactly are people getting this idea from? #gamergate was started by Adam Baldwin, specifically to address corruption in games journalism and the collusion of media outlets in trying to silence discussion of it. The roots of it go back to /v/ having been convinced game journalism is corrupt for several years. See their musical tribute to games journalism from a year ago for an example (or the dewrito pope meme): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr7u1tWsGBk&list=PLAX8JHUJcF...

>But it's not a problem that I've ever actually seen a #GamerGate fan attempt to address

Have you ever looked? They have tons of information, they organize out in the open (it was on github until their repo was removed due to complaints), where everyone can see and contribute. #gamergate supporters have been harassed and threatened and Milo was even sent a syringe full of something unknown. Why do people paint such a dishonest picture of this whole thing?

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#22

Post by throwawayGG » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:37 AM UTC

ps4fanboy wrote: post #19

This is no different than fringe radical feminists attacking people on the internet, I dont have a link but there was an incident of a grown woman doxing a 13 year old kid. If that doesnt make all feminists bad then this shouldnt make all gamers bad at least apply consistent logic and standards.

I think you might lack a little perspective here. Radical feminists attacking people is NOT the same as someone threatening to go to a persons house, rape and kill them, and then proving they know where the person lives.

"ps4fanboy". Hmm.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#23

Post by uvTwitch » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:40 AM UTC

throwawayGG wrote: post #15

uvTwitch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This narrative you're pushing here is a very hard sell considering this is one of their most prominent banners: http://www.nichegamer.net/media/2014/09/gamergate.jpg Being the interenet, there are naturally aggressive and violent people who will throw harassment around. With regard to this issue, it is downright false to claim that they originate from, or are encouraged by, any one camp, as there are examples of hara…

Yeah, that banner is bullshit - as far as I can see it is completely ignored by the majority of people supporting gamergate. The linked thread on reddit is full of people complaining about "SJW" - social justice warriors. These are equated with feminists and are widely condemned by GamerGaters. Attacks on women in gaming dominate the headlines on the linked subreddit[1], and it's pretty clear that problems they have…

Browsing that subreddit, it seems to very effectively disprove your claims. Nobody is complaining about 'women', they are complaining about shitty people. You don't get a pass from being a shitty person just because of your gender. Furthermore, #2 of the subreddit's rules: "Do not be a dick to anyone. Harass anybody, and you're out. We don't want your kind, here."

Social Justice Warriors are vilified because of their fanatical, hateful, exclusionary behavior. They are called 'warriors' and not 'advocates' for a reason.

If you can only see gamergate as an excuse for misogyny, then I'd say you're only looking for that, and ignoring anything else you find, because poor behavior like that is universally condemned within the movement.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#24

Post by imanaccount247 » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:41 AM UTC

throwawayGG wrote: post #20

imanaccount247 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How have they made that clear exactly? By condemning the actions of the tiny number of people being abusive? The tiny number of people who have nothing to do with "gamergate" in the first place? Do you seriously not have any moral qualms about lying about millions of people and claiming they target and intimidate people? If you are going to make claims like that, you need to back it up with evidence. You can't just c…

You can't just claim one sick person's actions are the fault of some other group of people. Actually I can. That group of people acts as an enabling environment, making the behaviour seem less extreme to those associated in that group. Do you seriously not have any moral qualms about lying about millions of people and claiming they target and intimidate people? I don't see these "millions of people" actively working…

>I don't see these "millions of people" actively working to make sure the person making those threats is found and brought to justice

Good! That is the police's job, not random internet mobs. Look how well internet vigilante justice has worked out every other time. What we do see is exactly what we should see: them condemning this garbage regardless of who it happens to. Oddly enough, we don't see the "journalist"/indie side condemning the #gamergate supporters being sent threats and even syringes full of mystery liquids.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#25

Post by fenomas » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:43 AM UTC

uvTwitch wrote: post #7

throwawayGG wrote: post #3

It's interesting what a chilling effect the evil "gamergate" people have. By making it clear they target anyone who stands up for women in gaming or for freedom of press they have intimidated people who would usually be up front in their support for the people attacked. I hope someone can come up with a sensible strategy for dealing with these trolls. I'd like to see real-world consequences. The article indicates the…

This narrative you're pushing here is a very hard sell considering this is one of their most prominent banners: http://www.nichegamer.net/media/2014/09/gamergate.jpg Being the interenet, there are naturally aggressive and violent people who will throw harassment around. With regard to this issue, it is downright false to claim that they originate from, or are encouraged by, any one camp, as there are examples of hara…

Neither side of things is that simple. While people who openly support gamergate now focus on journalism and condemn misogynistic threats, a look at GG's origins (e.g. the #burgersandfries IRC logs, which as much as anything else started the whole thing[1]), reveals plenty to abhor - way more discussion of how to effectively character-assassinate Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian than of how to reform games journalism, anyway. If the "real message" of the movement is now completely removed from that, that's great, but I don't think the idea that misogynistic threats have no connection to the "real" gamergate stands up to scrutiny.

[1] http://puu.sh/boAEC/f072f259b6.txt

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#26

Post by acdha » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:44 AM UTC

uvTwitch wrote: post #7

throwawayGG wrote: post #3

It's interesting what a chilling effect the evil "gamergate" people have. By making it clear they target anyone who stands up for women in gaming or for freedom of press they have intimidated people who would usually be up front in their support for the people attacked. I hope someone can come up with a sensible strategy for dealing with these trolls. I'd like to see real-world consequences. The article indicates the…

This narrative you're pushing here is a very hard sell considering this is one of their most prominent banners: http://www.nichegamer.net/media/2014/09/gamergate.jpg Being the interenet, there are naturally aggressive and violent people who will throw harassment around. With regard to this issue, it is downright false to claim that they originate from, or are encouraged by, any one camp, as there are examples of hara…

Here's the problem: #gamergate started as part of a harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn, closely following a round of attacks on Anita Sarkeesian[1] by many of the same people. The journalism bit was a valid issue latter adopted as a shield against criticism from the attacks at those women, several journalists and anyone else who spoke up against the abuse. Then they jumped in bed with the Breitbart crew, who were never particularly fond of gamers in the past but love free attention and attacks on feminists and other perceived enemies.

Things like the image you linked to were invented well after the shitstorm was in full swing as part of that distraction campaign, as were the hundreds of fake accounts registered on Twitter, etc. in the last couple months which use very similar language and pictures to either make attacks or deliver excuses or historical revisionism – amusingly, often trying both from the same account as in e.g. https://twitter.com/frankcifaldi/status/521117712844468224.

There's simply no way to recover from the tainted roots of that movement. I have no doubt that there are people who really do care about the quality of gaming journalism or the public reputation of gamers but they're simply being used at this point in the same way that someone who shows up at a PETA-organized rally expecting to talk about sustainable farming.

If you actually care about any of those issues, stop volunteering your time and reputation as a shield for #gamergate. Let the extremists deal with the mess while you write about ethics without having to get distracted by the grenades being tossed by the people you're choosing to ally with.

1. See e.g. http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/zoe-quinns-depression..., http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for..., etc.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#27

Post by throwawayGG » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:45 AM UTC

imanaccount247 wrote: post #21

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great that you're interested in promoting journalistic integrity, and not in attacking women. Why, then, don't you start a movement that can credibly claim to support those goals, instead of rallying behind one that was created to attack one woman for completely made-up crimes against journalism? I would love to see someone do this. Corruption in games journalism is a real problem. But it's not a problem that I'…

>instead of rallying behind one that was created to attack one woman for completely made-up crimes against journalism? I've seen this statement quite a lot, where exactly are people getting this idea from? #gamergate was started by Adam Baldwin, specifically to address corruption in games journalism and the collusion of media outlets in trying to silence discussion of it. The roots of it go back to /v/ having been co…

Adam Baldwin also linked hashtag #GamerGate to the anti-feminism movement[1] when "when tweeting links to pre-existing misogynistic corruption conspiracy theory videos surrounding Quinn and Sarkeesian".

Maybe it meant something else for a week or two. But it's been associated with this for much longer than anything else.

[1] https://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/status/504801169638567936

[2] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/new-chat-logs-show-how...

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#28

Post by uvTwitch » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:45 AM UTC

tehwebguy wrote: post #18

uvTwitch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This narrative you're pushing here is a very hard sell considering this is one of their most prominent banners: http://www.nichegamer.net/media/2014/09/gamergate.jpg Being the interenet, there are naturally aggressive and violent people who will throw harassment around. With regard to this issue, it is downright false to claim that they originate from, or are encouraged by, any one camp, as there are examples of hara…

Probably because they only decided that "integrity in game journalism" was a worthy cause when they decided that a woman paid for a review with sex.

This is provably false. There was plenty of outrage over the 'dorito pope' incident: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/dorito-pope

and over the firing of Jeff Gerstmann over his Kane and Lynch review: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gerstmann

The reason this incident blew up is that, when people complained about it, journalists who were friends of the accused decided to publish a series of attack pieces painting gamers as nothing but woman hating adult children in response, thus igniting the current fire.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#29

Post by imanaccount247 » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:46 AM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #16

imanaccount247 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, why does "#gamergate" get the blame for this? This trend of vilifying any group one disagrees with based on the actions of individuals with no indication they are even connected to the group is pretty disturbing. Remember when Jack Thompson got death threats? Remember how it was not acceptable to pretend "gamers" were at fault for that, but rather the individual people committing those crimes were at…

Because #gamergate is a name that was created to attack one woman based on completely spurious claims. If you really care about corruption in games journalism (and I do) then it makes no sense to continue rallying behind this banner that was tainted from the start.

>Because #gamergate is a name that was created to attack one woman based on completely spurious claims.

No it was not. Again, where are people getting this bizarre idea? It was created by Adam Baldwin, on twitter, specifically about games journalism and the game websites silencing discussion of games journalism. It seems really hard to believe that these constant claims that #gamergate was started to attack someone (who?) is all honest ignorance rather than deliberate dishonesty.

Re: Game developer Brianna Wu leaves home after death threats for supporting women

#30

Post by ps4fanboy » Sun, Oct 12, 2014, 3:52 AM UTC

throwawayGG wrote: post #22

ps4fanboy wrote: post #19

This is no different than fringe radical feminists attacking people on the internet, I dont have a link but there was an incident of a grown woman doxing a 13 year old kid. If that doesnt make all feminists bad then this shouldnt make all gamers bad at least apply consistent logic and standards.

I think you might lack a little perspective here. Radical feminists attacking people is NOT the same as someone threatening to go to a persons house, rape and kill them, and then proving they know where the person lives. "ps4fanboy". Hmm.

Sorry to be clear by attacking I meant threatening peoples safety in much the same way. My username is caricature so I am not sure why you are trying to attack me based on it, very childish.

Just a single example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey#Overview

"Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her research into the claim that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. Pizzey has said that the threats were from militant feminists."

No sane person would suggest because of this that all feminists support this action. Why is it ok for you to say the same about Gamers?