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Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

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Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#11

Post by throwaway344 »

kilon wrote: post #9
jogzden wrote: post #7

As someone with a Macedonian background, what bothers me most is my father's reaction to this news when I told him about it. I am legitimately excited about this news, and all he could really think of was if the Greeks would claim Philip II as theirs and began ranting about the whole Alexander being Macedonian/Greek debate. I understand his justification for thinking that way, but it's just sad that the Macedonians a…

You exaggerate , Greeks dont hate you. Some angry, some frustrated , some don't care. As a Greek myself, I don't like to say to other countries what they should name themselves but there is an entire area in Greece already that is called Macedonia that is even more ancient than Alexander himself. So at best case scenario the name is at least an inconvenience for us. Its like France deciding to name itself London, how…

The fact remains that much of the world does have just the very same issue of different places being named the same. Texas has a town called Paris, France has a somewhat larger and more amount town also called Paris. There's a La Paz, Mexico and a La Paz, Bolivia too.

From my perspective, nowhere else is the duplication of names quite so big a deal as it is in the context of Macedonia.

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#12

Post by [deleted] »

kilon wrote: post #9
jogzden wrote: post #7

As someone with a Macedonian background, what bothers me most is my father's reaction to this news when I told him about it. I am legitimately excited about this news, and all he could really think of was if the Greeks would claim Philip II as theirs and began ranting about the whole Alexander being Macedonian/Greek debate. I understand his justification for thinking that way, but it's just sad that the Macedonians a…

You exaggerate , Greeks dont hate you. Some angry, some frustrated , some don't care. As a Greek myself, I don't like to say to other countries what they should name themselves but there is an entire area in Greece already that is called Macedonia that is even more ancient than Alexander himself. So at best case scenario the name is at least an inconvenience for us. Its like France deciding to name itself London, how…

[deleted]

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#13

Post by argumentum »

kilon wrote: post #5
tootie wrote: post #3

It's a shame that Philip of Macedon can't get his own billing. He was a legend in his own right before his son overshadowed him.

Anyone that studies history knows that without Philip , Alexander would not exist nor would have the means to be "Great". So I will have to disagree, at least here in Greece Philip is as big as his son , if not bigger. But then Philip would have to stand on the shoulders of previous leaders , who stand in shoulders of other city-states inside Greece who stood in the shoulder of other countries , etc etc and etc. Over…

without Philip , Alexander would not exist

Haha, you wouldn't need to know much about history to know that sons would not exist without their fathers ;)

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#14

Post by mjn »

tootie wrote: post #3

It's a shame that Philip of Macedon can't get his own billing. He was a legend in his own right before his son overshadowed him.

It is a bit weird that the headlines around this find are mostly being phrased like that. We studied both in school, and I had assumed they were both pretty well known.

I guess for a headline-writer, though, "Alexander the Great" has near-universal recognition, while "Philip of Macedon" doesn't have enough to assume that a general audience will have their eye caught by the headline. So it ends up with this slightly dumbed-down phrasing.

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#15

Post by hanoz »

kilon wrote: post #9
jogzden wrote: post #7

As someone with a Macedonian background, what bothers me most is my father's reaction to this news when I told him about it. I am legitimately excited about this news, and all he could really think of was if the Greeks would claim Philip II as theirs and began ranting about the whole Alexander being Macedonian/Greek debate. I understand his justification for thinking that way, but it's just sad that the Macedonians a…

You exaggerate , Greeks dont hate you. Some angry, some frustrated , some don't care. As a Greek myself, I don't like to say to other countries what they should name themselves but there is an entire area in Greece already that is called Macedonia that is even more ancient than Alexander himself. So at best case scenario the name is at least an inconvenience for us. Its like France deciding to name itself London, how…

Perhaps they might retaliate in kind by naming themselves after a French region, say Brittany.

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#16

Post by mjn »

throwaway344 wrote: post #11
kilon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You exaggerate , Greeks dont hate you. Some angry, some frustrated , some don't care. As a Greek myself, I don't like to say to other countries what they should name themselves but there is an entire area in Greece already that is called Macedonia that is even more ancient than Alexander himself. So at best case scenario the name is at least an inconvenience for us. Its like France deciding to name itself London, how…

The fact remains that much of the world does have just the very same issue of different places being named the same. Texas has a town called Paris, France has a somewhat larger and more amount town also called Paris. There's a La Paz, Mexico and a La Paz, Bolivia too. From my perspective, nowhere else is the duplication of names quite so big a deal as it is in the context of Macedonia.

The argument is more caused by disputes over history than by the name duplication (though there is some dumb arguing over just the name). What mostly inflames Greek opinion is the other set of claims that goes along with the name: for example, a number of historians from the Republic of Macedonia claim that the ancient Macedonian language was a Slavic language (rather than a Greek dialect), and that the people of the modern Republic of Macedonia are the modern cultural descendants of the ancient Macedonians. Whereas Greeks see the ancient Macedonians as part of their own ancient history, like the Ionians and Athenians and Minoans and other Greek peoples. Also a particularly important part of it due Macedonia's role in instigating the Hellenistic age. Third-party historians generally side with the Greek view (Slavic migration to the Balkans far postdates the ancient Macedonians). But the use of the name by the Republic of Macedonia, especially together with its use of ancient Macedonian symbols, and unorthodox historical claims made by some of its leading figures, does seem to have confused some laypeople, which annoys Greeks, who feel some of their history is being appropriated.

Purely geographically speaking, just about anyone vaguely in the region does have a claim to be in Macedonia, because it's been the name of a number of territories over the years [1]. The real dispute is more over cultural legacy than whether Skopje or Thessaloniki are more geographically "in" Macedonia.

[1] A decent concise summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#17

Post by kilon »

throwaway344 wrote: post #11
kilon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You exaggerate , Greeks dont hate you. Some angry, some frustrated , some don't care. As a Greek myself, I don't like to say to other countries what they should name themselves but there is an entire area in Greece already that is called Macedonia that is even more ancient than Alexander himself. So at best case scenario the name is at least an inconvenience for us. Its like France deciding to name itself London, how…

The fact remains that much of the world does have just the very same issue of different places being named the same. Texas has a town called Paris, France has a somewhat larger and more amount town also called Paris. There's a La Paz, Mexico and a La Paz, Bolivia too. From my perspective, nowhere else is the duplication of names quite so big a deal as it is in the context of Macedonia.

However what you choose to forget is that in USA there is also a town called Athens , actually I think there are two, and yet we Greeks have no issue with that either , why ?

In any case I agree with user comment this is not the topic of the thread I will respect that and I will let people who can think for themselves and can do their own thorough research draw their own conclusions on the matter.

Frankly the one thing that bothered me the most was the word "hate".

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#18

Post by kilon »

argumentum wrote: post #13
kilon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone that studies history knows that without Philip , Alexander would not exist nor would have the means to be "Great". So I will have to disagree, at least here in Greece Philip is as big as his son , if not bigger. But then Philip would have to stand on the shoulders of previous leaders , who stand in shoulders of other city-states inside Greece who stood in the shoulder of other countries , etc etc and etc. Over…

without Philip , Alexander would not exist Haha, you wouldn't need to know much about history to know that sons would not exist without their fathers ;)

I did not mean it this way.

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#19

Post by jogzden »

user3141592653 wrote: post #8
jogzden wrote: post #7

As someone with a Macedonian background, what bothers me most is my father's reaction to this news when I told him about it. I am legitimately excited about this news, and all he could really think of was if the Greeks would claim Philip II as theirs and began ranting about the whole Alexander being Macedonian/Greek debate. I understand his justification for thinking that way, but it's just sad that the Macedonians a…

Lets not turn this into a Greek vs Macedonian thing. Anyone that can read and think has already figured that out by now...

Oh, I am not by any means trying to turn the news into something. I am merely expressing my distaste with nationalism and what it can do to people.

Re: Remains of Alexander the Great's Father Confirmed Found

#20

Post by StavrosK »

jogzden wrote: post #7

As someone with a Macedonian background, what bothers me most is my father's reaction to this news when I told him about it. I am legitimately excited about this news, and all he could really think of was if the Greeks would claim Philip II as theirs and began ranting about the whole Alexander being Macedonian/Greek debate. I understand his justification for thinking that way, but it's just sad that the Macedonians a…

As a Macedonian (the Greek kind), your father isn't that wrong. The government is already trying to use the tomb of Amphipolis for that, even contrary to scientific evidence.

I don't think anyone will even dispute that ancient Macedonia was this entire region, it stands to reason that tombs would be found all over the place. The claims over heritage/language/etc are rather different from that.

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