Your statement implied that there was much in common with the two scenarios. There isn't. Therefore it's a bad comparison. fwiw I'm pro choice on both issues.
And I am too. I am not anti abortion I am pro voluntary suicide. "Just go to therapy it will be better" vs "Give the baby a chance you might grow to love it". How is it any different?
Suicide in otherwise healthy individuals is (imo) a mental health issue. Abortion is not.
Your initial comment that I responded to implied that discouraging suicide is or should be in bad taste. I don't agree with this statement.
My position is predicated on the assumption that life is better than death.
That is because men are seen as disposable, throughout the Western World. ~80% of those 40,000 suicides were men. I've a feeling if it were 80% female there would be a lot more attention given to it.
I found that 80% number strange and it seems the real numbers are much more complex than that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide The entry paragraph gives a quick glimpse of the complexities but here's my attempt at a tl,dr of it: - there are highly asymmetric rates of attempted and completed suicide between genders - can vary significantly between different countries - males die much more of…
One large factor is the prevailing gender discrimination against males in medical care. Those men who goes against gender roles and actually do seek help against mental health problems are often meet with disbelieve, and do not get the same treatment and support as women. Doctors are found to diagnose depression in women more compared with men, even when two patients have similar scores on standardized measures of depression or present with identical symptoms.
That reported suicide attempts and thoughts are much more common among females than male seem to have quite obvious reasons. Most men do not report it, and from those who still do it, many gets ignored and is thus not recorded into the statistics.
And I am too. I am not anti abortion I am pro voluntary suicide. "Just go to therapy it will be better" vs "Give the baby a chance you might grow to love it". How is it any different?
Suicide in otherwise healthy individuals is (imo) a mental health issue. Abortion is not. Your initial comment that I responded to implied that discouraging suicide is or should be in bad taste. I don't agree with this statement. My position is predicated on the assumption that life is better than death.
My position sees death as a permanent zero. If your life is continually in the negatives and you have to work every day to keep it there then putting it at zero permanently without any more effort required seems a good deal to me.
I loathe your condescension. If someone wants to die and they still want to die a month later, let them. By what right do we force those who want to die to suffer a little longer? If it's their life why can't they end it if they will? You know what's not a terminal illness that is bad enough that many with it would welcome death? Schizophrenia. For some the medicine works, the side effects are acceptable, they can le…
> By what right You assume 100% self ownership of one's life, which I find silly. Society makes large investments in individuals and typically they have long term duties that cannot rightfully be abandoned.
Well in America anyway, the dominant culture is of an independent right to choose your own way. Especially in the arena of personal health and welfare.
Suicide in otherwise healthy individuals is (imo) a mental health issue. Abortion is not. Your initial comment that I responded to implied that discouraging suicide is or should be in bad taste. I don't agree with this statement. My position is predicated on the assumption that life is better than death.
My position sees death as a permanent zero. If your life is continually in the negatives and you have to work every day to keep it there then putting it at zero permanently without any more effort required seems a good deal to me.
Death is not really a zero. There's nobody left to do the measuring. Its more like a singularity?
Its a curious notion that folks dwell on about what its like after death. How about - you won't be there? The question is nonsense.
One in a 100 people in the US will die by suicide. It's a common cause of death.
Could suicide and depression be a response to civilization and modernity? This article cites some evidence that the suicide rate was much lower among various groups of hunter-gatherers:
My position sees death as a permanent zero. If your life is continually in the negatives and you have to work every day to keep it there then putting it at zero permanently without any more effort required seems a good deal to me.
Death is not really a zero. There's nobody left to do the measuring. Its more like a singularity? Its a curious notion that folks dwell on about what its like after death. How about - you won't be there? The question is nonsense.
Well maybe the words chosen are wrong. I agree that there would be no "me" left to do the measuring. In death there would also be no "me" left to measure things and find it is negative either.
I found that 80% number strange and it seems the real numbers are much more complex than that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide The entry paragraph gives a quick glimpse of the complexities but here's my attempt at a tl,dr of it: - there are highly asymmetric rates of attempted and completed suicide between genders - can vary significantly between different countries - males die much more of…
One large factor is the prevailing gender discrimination against males in medical care. Those men who goes against gender roles and actually do seek help against mental health problems are often meet with disbelieve, and do not get the same treatment and support as women. Doctors are found to diagnose depression in women more compared with men, even when two patients have similar scores on standardized measures of de…
While I agree with most of what you say, I believe we should be more careful claiming there are "obvious reasons" for something without scientific evidence. What you are saying, which might be correct (and I kind of agree with) is not scientifically proved (that I know of), there might really be a gender imbalance for suicidal tendencies but having "obvious reasons" is not enough, at least for me, to claim it as a fact. I find it strange and I'd prefer more work to be done on this matters.
I think you're confusing or equalizing suicide with euthanasia; the former is, in this case, a mental issue triggered by chemical inbalances (which in turn are often due to external causes), and as the people that have been through depression can attest to, a temporary one. Suicide in that case can be listed as a temporary lapse in judgment. Euthanasia, on the other hand, is a conscious choice, often by the terminall…
I loathe your condescension. If someone wants to die and they still want to die a month later, let them. By what right do we force those who want to die to suffer a little longer? If it's their life why can't they end it if they will? You know what's not a terminal illness that is bad enough that many with it would welcome death? Schizophrenia. For some the medicine works, the side effects are acceptable, they can le…
I'm not sure I saw the same condescension you did. I think the parent were simply pointing out that not everyone who wants to kill themselves is the same. Some people who want to kill themselves actually have solutions available to them that will make them not only not want to kill themselves, but also live fulfilling and enjoyable lives.
The grandparent was saying it should be easier for people to kill themselves, and I think the parent was trying to point out that this isn't a perfect solution since there are so many who think that suicide is their only option but there are really other options.
Medical and lost work. 10 people who may take days of leave, 10+ person days lost for funeral, 1 person a company needs to replace.
Taking a day of leave doesn't cause any lost-work expenses, under the standard system of "you get this much leave, and it doesn't roll over". If I take 15 days off in a year, the number of days I work is totally unaffected by whether one of the days off was spent at a funeral, or in some other way. Say an unemployed 17-year-old kills himself and his funeral is held on a Sunday. I don't think that's a huge stretch, bu…
No, it's standard for Bereavement leave to come separably from normal paid time off, similar to maternity leave. It almost never comes from the same "days off" bucket.