40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs • Hacker News Board

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#71

Post by thaumasiotes » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:15 PM UTC

cldellow wrote: post #35

lmz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is also irreversible, yet discouraging women who want to abort their pregnancy from doing so is considered in bad taste by most liberals.

More nuance, please! I think most women have thought about abortion to some degree and formed an opinion on whether it's the right choice for them, or under what conditions they would entertain the idea of an abortion versus keeping the child in an unexpected pregnancy. In these cases, you're right: discouraging women who have thought about the process would be seen as in bad taste. But what if the woman was being pr…

> A large proportion of suicide attempts are people who go on to regret it and successfully seek treatment.

A different conclusion you could draw from this are that the failed attempts failed because they weren't really trying to kill themselves, a sort of regretting-in-advance, if you will. I feel pretty safe in saying that successful suicide attempts don't go on to regret it, and it's not at all obvious that the failures and the successes are examples of the same phenomenon.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#72

Post by thaumasiotes » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:17 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #23

bproctor wrote: post #22

I probably have an unpopular opinion on this, but I feel that people who wish to commit suicide should not be prevented from doing so. By all means, if someone wants to get help or needs counseling they should be able to get it. But if in the end their choice is suicide, we should be making it easier for them, not harder. I think that if I ever wanted to commit suicide I would be less likely to seek counseling out of…

You seem to be forgetting that for a lot of these people it wasn't really a choice. Their mind was malfunctioning and led them to do something they probably wouldn't have a few months later if they received the right help. Your argument about animals is more related to assisted dying/euthanasia which probably represents a very small number of these suicides and is a separate discussion I feel.

> You seem to be forgetting that for a lot of these people it wasn't really a choice. Their mind was malfunctioning and led them to do something they probably wouldn't have a few months later

This argument proves a little too much.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#73

Post by shasta » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:19 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #3

ssprang wrote: post #2

Briggs saw the worst of this during suicide crises on the bridge when drivers passing by would yell out, "Go ahead and jump." Despicable.

Regrettably this behavior appears to be protected by the first amendment, unless suicide itself is made illegal (as it used to be in many jurisdictions). A law criminalizing such behavior in Minnesota was reversed at appeal: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/03/19/encouraging-suicide-isnt... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Melchert-Dinkel I can't politely express my opinion about people like this.

Should they go kill themselves? Funny that the mental failings of the jumper evoke such sympathy and the mental failings of the "asshole" evoke such hatred.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#74

Post by chriscool » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:19 PM UTC

lhnz wrote: post #42

31reasons wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to educate yourself with the science of choice and what happens during depression that changes your ability to make right decisions. Assuming that a depressed person is able to make the right decision is just wrong. How many times did you decide on something and than changed your mind? only this one is irreversible. Depression is curable with right support and medication. There may be few who are hopeless ca…

Were you previously depressed yourself or are you just trotting out the party line? I have been depressed before. While it's true that some people can take medication and receive platitudes and coping methods on how to deal with the facts of a sad and sorry life, this won't "cure" everybody. What about those people that suffer for 10+ years? --- In regards to the typical statements that depressed people have to hear…

I have been depressed too for years. What I can tell you is that one day, something wonderful and completely unexpected can happen and change everything :-) But you should not count too much on it though. In fact, I would say you should do the best you can to stop worrying about yourself and care about things that could help others. It's after you have done that for some years that the wonderful things are most likely to happen!

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#75

Post by feld » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:25 PM UTC

  Razors pain you;
  Rivers are damp;
  Acids stain you;
  And drugs cause cramp.
  Guns aren't lawful;
  Nooses give;
  Gas smells awful;
  You might as well live.
                  -- Dorothy Parker, "Resume", 1926

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#76

Post by lhnz » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:26 PM UTC

chriscool wrote: post #74

lhnz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you previously depressed yourself or are you just trotting out the party line? I have been depressed before. While it's true that some people can take medication and receive platitudes and coping methods on how to deal with the facts of a sad and sorry life, this won't "cure" everybody. What about those people that suffer for 10+ years? --- In regards to the typical statements that depressed people have to hear…

I have been depressed too for years. What I can tell you is that one day, something wonderful and completely unexpected can happen and change everything :-) But you should not count too much on it though. In fact, I would say you should do the best you can to stop worrying about yourself and care about things that could help others. It's after you have done that for some years that the wonderful things are most likel…

That is actually more or less what happened to me, too. :)

Certain bad things which had been hanging around lifted, certain good things came into play. At that point I still had quite a depressed mindset but I had wanted to improve my life for so long and I had a lot of inner strength so I was able to grow a very positive, healthy mindset.

I really agree about trying to point yourself outwards and to help others around you. That's so important to me. In fact I have taken some off work recently just to create something which I believe might help people.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#77

Post by baltcode » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:27 PM UTC

iaskwhy wrote: post #28

ripb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because men are seen as disposable, throughout the Western World. ~80% of those 40,000 suicides were men. I've a feeling if it were 80% female there would be a lot more attention given to it.

I found that 80% number strange and it seems the real numbers are much more complex than that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide The entry paragraph gives a quick glimpse of the complexities but here's my attempt at a tl,dr of it: - there are highly asymmetric rates of attempted and completed suicide between genders - can vary significantly between different countries - males die much more of…

I think the OP's point stands. Society and the law isn't trying to understand and reduce the deaths of so many guys.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#78

Post by a8da6b0c91d » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:30 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #65

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confusing or equalizing suicide with euthanasia; the former is, in this case, a mental issue triggered by chemical inbalances (which in turn are often due to external causes), and as the people that have been through depression can attest to, a temporary one. Suicide in that case can be listed as a temporary lapse in judgment. Euthanasia, on the other hand, is a conscious choice, often by the terminall…

I loathe your condescension. If someone wants to die and they still want to die a month later, let them. By what right do we force those who want to die to suffer a little longer? If it's their life why can't they end it if they will? You know what's not a terminal illness that is bad enough that many with it would welcome death? Schizophrenia. For some the medicine works, the side effects are acceptable, they can le…

> By what right

You assume 100% self ownership of one's life, which I find silly. Society makes large investments in individuals and typically they have long term duties that cannot rightfully be abandoned.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#79

Post by mqsiuser » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:34 PM UTC

imaginenore wrote: post #8

bruceb wrote: post #5

"...the second-leading killer for those ages 15-34." I would have never guessed that. Now I can understand why some are trying to use social media to detect who might be expressing feeling that are common with depression and suicidal thoughts.

And these are mostly males. Life for males really improves after 30. Girls starting to hit on you a lot more, better jobs, more money, less stress.

You are right, BUT sorry, this is unpopular on hacker news

Try to show that there is no difference between woman and men and you may get upvotes.

Edit: And hey: Life for femals is much better between 16 and 35 (and deteriorates quickly after that).

Man,... I know a lot of grumpy old woman.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#80

Post by kirsebaer » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 1:34 PM UTC

robbiep wrote: post #66

40,000 is an awfully large number but it is less than the number of gun deaths in the US (put at around 50-60,000 depending on the sources), which would be much easier to prevent

16,000 homicides total (firearm or otherwise) in the US in 2011.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm