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40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

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Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#41

Post by icegreentea »

bruceb wrote: post #5

"...the second-leading killer for those ages 15-34." I would have never guessed that. Now I can understand why some are trying to use social media to detect who might be expressing feeling that are common with depression and suicidal thoughts.

Well really, what did you expect the second leading killer to be? They are literally in the prime of their lives. In general, they are as physically healthy as they will ever be. The leading 'killer' is the 'unintentional injury' category. Take a look at these charts (Canada and USA both included for comparison).

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10lcid_all_deaths_by_a...

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/lcd-pcd97/table1-eng.php

Suicide only 'drops in the rankings' because peoples start dying of other things.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#42

Post by lhnz »

31reasons wrote: post #29
bproctor wrote: post #22

I probably have an unpopular opinion on this, but I feel that people who wish to commit suicide should not be prevented from doing so. By all means, if someone wants to get help or needs counseling they should be able to get it. But if in the end their choice is suicide, we should be making it easier for them, not harder. I think that if I ever wanted to commit suicide I would be less likely to seek counseling out of…

You need to educate yourself with the science of choice and what happens during depression that changes your ability to make right decisions. Assuming that a depressed person is able to make the right decision is just wrong. How many times did you decide on something and than changed your mind? only this one is irreversible. Depression is curable with right support and medication. There may be few who are hopeless ca…

Were you previously depressed yourself or are you just trotting out the party line?

I have been depressed before.

While it's true that some people can take medication and receive platitudes and coping methods on how to deal with the facts of a sad and sorry life, this won't "cure" everybody.

What about those people that suffer for 10+ years?

---

In regards to the typical statements that depressed people have to hear day-upon-day:

When I was depressed (and I was very depressed for around 5 years) I knew that based on what I saw around me, I could probably expect to stop becoming depressed at some point of my life. However, it greatly annoyed me when people said "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" because when you've felt particularly bad for years and years, you're not dealing with something which is so easy to change, and it's in fact far more permanent than many things in your life. Time stretches without pleasure. Days are long but years are unimaginably scary.

Another statement which I would hear a lot was the idea that you shouldn't kill yourself because your family, friends and community need you. It doesn't necessarily sounds nice to a depressed person. Here's how I used to rationalise it: I was committing a selfless act of martyrdom by continuing to exist without pleasure - every day I would be nailed to a cross and for their pleasure would hang there on a side of a hill they didn't care to visit. "What did they get out of my suffering?!"

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#43

Post by pfortuny »

bproctor wrote: post #22

I probably have an unpopular opinion on this, but I feel that people who wish to commit suicide should not be prevented from doing so. By all means, if someone wants to get help or needs counseling they should be able to get it. But if in the end their choice is suicide, we should be making it easier for them, not harder. I think that if I ever wanted to commit suicide I would be less likely to seek counseling out of…

You do not understand (or it seems so) that in most cases, the "decision" to commit suicide is not either a "free" or a "willing" decision.

There are cases where it is but, honestly, they are so few that legislating for them would be dishonest.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#44

Post by tokenadult »

headShrinker wrote: post #24

Frankly, I'm surprized that this is seemingly the first mention of this... "The Suicide Prevention Resource Center synthesized these studies and estimated that between 30 and 40% of LGBT youth, depending on age and sex groups, have attempted suicide." Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth I hope I just missed the reference somewhere in the piece or these comments.

I went to the website of the organization you mentioned. I browsed and then searched that website. A link there took me to another organization, the American Association of Suicidology, at first to a dead link, then I browsed and searched that organization's website, and found a fact sheet on the issue you bring up.[1] The fact sheet mentions some studies and their conclusions, without detailed citations or descriptions of methodology, and points out "Because no reliable data exists, we do not know whether LGBT youth die by suicide more frequently than their straight peers. Sexual orientation and gender identity data are not included on death certificates so aggregated national death data do not include this information. In addition, many LGBT youth do not disclose this information to family members and friends; as a result, sexual orientation and gender identity often do not show up in psychological autopsy interviews." In other words, we are not completely sure that LGBT status is a risk factor for completed suicide in the United States, although that is the current working hypothesis among many suicide researchers. As the article submitted to open the thread here today makes clear, there is a lot of basis research on suicide that still needs to be done.

[1] http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/LGBT%20...

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#45

Post by [deleted] »

cldellow wrote: post #35
lmz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is also irreversible, yet discouraging women who want to abort their pregnancy from doing so is considered in bad taste by most liberals.

More nuance, please! I think most women have thought about abortion to some degree and formed an opinion on whether it's the right choice for them, or under what conditions they would entertain the idea of an abortion versus keeping the child in an unexpected pregnancy. In these cases, you're right: discouraging women who have thought about the process would be seen as in bad taste. But what if the woman was being pr…

[deleted]

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#46

Post by lmz »

ux-app wrote: post #40
lmz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is also irreversible, yet discouraging women who want to abort their pregnancy from doing so is considered in bad taste by most liberals.

that's a horrible comparison

And why is that? It's her body and she has the right to remove the fetus in her. Why does she not have the right to put a tankful of Nitrogen in her lungs if she chooses to do so?

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#47

Post by asolove »

grimtrigger wrote: post #36
31reasons wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to educate yourself with the science of choice and what happens during depression that changes your ability to make right decisions. Assuming that a depressed person is able to make the right decision is just wrong. How many times did you decide on something and than changed your mind? only this one is irreversible. Depression is curable with right support and medication. There may be few who are hopeless ca…

> right decision You're asserting that not only a right decision exists, but that you are more aware of the right decision than the person actually involved.

I am married to a person who came very close to suicide and might have gone through with it except for the relative difficulty and the intervention of other people against her will.

After short-term medication, long-term therapy, and some lifestyle changes, we live mostly normal lives and have two happy children.

So you're damn right I'm asserting that there's a right decision and that I knew better than her in her chemically imbalanced state.

Now, this is one scenario that has a happy ending. I don't know what I would think about someone chronically and incurably suffering. But the idea of absolutely unfettered access to assisted suicide scares me.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#48

Post by [deleted] »

bproctor wrote: post #22

I probably have an unpopular opinion on this, but I feel that people who wish to commit suicide should not be prevented from doing so. By all means, if someone wants to get help or needs counseling they should be able to get it. But if in the end their choice is suicide, we should be making it easier for them, not harder. I think that if I ever wanted to commit suicide I would be less likely to seek counseling out of…

[deleted]

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#49

Post by lmz »

cldellow wrote: post #35
lmz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is also irreversible, yet discouraging women who want to abort their pregnancy from doing so is considered in bad taste by most liberals.

More nuance, please! I think most women have thought about abortion to some degree and formed an opinion on whether it's the right choice for them, or under what conditions they would entertain the idea of an abortion versus keeping the child in an unexpected pregnancy. In these cases, you're right: discouraging women who have thought about the process would be seen as in bad taste. But what if the woman was being pr…

I think most people who choose to commit suicide have given it a good few months or more of thinking. How long do people have to suffer in order for you to say "this person's done enough thinking about it, he can go"?

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#50

Post by jkldotio »

bproctor wrote: post #22

I probably have an unpopular opinion on this, but I feel that people who wish to commit suicide should not be prevented from doing so. By all means, if someone wants to get help or needs counseling they should be able to get it. But if in the end their choice is suicide, we should be making it easier for them, not harder. I think that if I ever wanted to commit suicide I would be less likely to seek counseling out of…

I logged in just to downvote you as, extremely unfortunately, you are the top comment on this thread at the present moment. I don't think, for most cases in which it is not terminal, that you can say it's a case of physical suffering.

As someone has pointed out in another comment, a huge number of suicides come not from people who are terminally ill but from people who are just depressed. In those cases nothing you say in your comment actually applies. Those people are not "critically injured" they are just depressed, frequently they go on to live full and meaningful lives if they seek help.

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