Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

news.microsoft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 94 posts

Re: Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

#61

Post by benjaminButton »

neilellis wrote: post #54
benjaminButton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Settle down, no need to sensationalize. That's not what even the OPs comment meant. Also, no, not everyone in India treats women like "chattel" (heck most of them worship them) and I'm pretty sure, neither does Satya.

I am not commenting on Satya in this reply, just the idea that either a) all women are treated like chattel in India or b) no women are treated like chattel in India. Neither of which of course is true. Women's lack of equality in India, compared to the UK, are in general I'm afraid pretty appalling, when I was younger I nearly moved to India for a while. But my wife who is of Indian descent was extremely reluctant b…

Again, it's hard to generalize but for the modern woman, I think it's no worse than what you'd find in the western world. Until last year, the most powerful politician in India was an Italian-Indian woman (again this might not mean anything but it shows that it's not ingrained into people). Also, given the population, you might hear more cases of inequality. But please don't let that affect your general view of India.

The caste system, I'm very sorry to say this, your ancestors are partly to blame for as well. Like we all know divide and conquer goes a long way in sorting out issues :-). But it used to be societal classification based on one's occupation (and people were free to move across strata as well) which allowed for easy governance. Anyway, today it's pretty much non-existent and is more a class system than anything else (it's a corollary that the highest castes are the richest class today). However, have enough money? Even the highest caste member will not mind handing his daughter over.

Re: Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

#62

Post by alecdbrooks »

I suspect he gave his standard advice about raises without considering the circumstances or that it wouldn't work equally well for men and women. That's not an excuse, but a reminder that sexism doesn't have to be deliberate to be sexism.

On the positive side, he did apologize without the typical spin or qualification.

Re: Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

#63

Post by gojomo »

It's sad how every outlet is putting in its headline some form of: "Satya Nadella to Women: Don't Ask for a Raise".

But "don't ask for a raise" weren't his words. His actual words were subtly different, and more along the lines that it can be OK not to ask for a raise – you shouldn't have to ask for a raise – when a compensation system is working right. It was sort of a "don't feel too bad" reassurance to women who are not comfortable pushing for raises.

The main problem with his answer was that it was sufficiently unclear as to allow for the "don't ask for raises" misinterpretation... and lots of people rush to the worst, rather than best, interpretations.

Who can report subtleties when there's revenue-goosing rage-hits to attract?

Re: Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

#64

Post by kqland »

Pay is based on background + experience + knowledge and how much company see as valuable resource.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of women from India and China earning $100k salary in California itself.

If you average out salary across depth and breadth of jobs and complain women don't earn enough I pity you. Look out for "Flaw of averages" from Dr. Sam Savage of Stanford.

If you are competent what is literally stopping from changing company ? or Start your own business ?

Complaining that you get paid less because you are women is nothing but non-sense. Show me recent graduate girls ( women ) earning less than recent grad boys.

In US you don't just look at salaries. You look at total compensation which includes PTO, 401k, holidays etc etc. Each company is different so some companies might be paying low on salary but high on PTO. So all I am saying is you can't just average out and claim that you are getting paid less.

By the way how this is not gender discrimination ? Guess US does not follow its own law. There are thousands of men also who get paid less , go years without increase what about them ? Why no movement for them ?

US is following path of Scandinavian countries and it is very sad that it is in downward spiral.

Re: Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

#67

Post by jessedhillon »

neilellis wrote: post #54
benjaminButton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Settle down, no need to sensationalize. That's not what even the OPs comment meant. Also, no, not everyone in India treats women like "chattel" (heck most of them worship them) and I'm pretty sure, neither does Satya.

I am not commenting on Satya in this reply, just the idea that either a) all women are treated like chattel in India or b) no women are treated like chattel in India. Neither of which of course is true. Women's lack of equality in India, compared to the UK, are in general I'm afraid pretty appalling, when I was younger I nearly moved to India for a while. But my wife who is of Indian descent was extremely reluctant b…

Dude, the distance from the east to the west of India is some 1200 miles, and north to south is around 2000 miles. The idea that you could describe the entire country in such simple cultural generalizations is as wrong as generalizing about people from LA and Kansas. Just the way you're talking about India is, while flattering, very uninformed. The US is also home to lovely and kind people, as well as people capable of monstrosity. The caste system is irrelevant in many parts of India -- it's not even a consideration! It's like not wanting to visit 1960s New York because, you know, all the lynching and the Jim Crow laws.

Re: Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

#68

Post by anigbrowl »

jacalata wrote: post #40
raghavsethi wrote: post #28

If I may put a bit of a cultural spin on this, his comment sort of reflects the culture in India, where a vast majority of people do not feel comfortable simply asking for a raise. Most people (men and women) essentially follow the strategy that Nadella suggested, to work harder and believe that you will be rewarded for it eventually. I'm not in any way suggesting that this is an effective strategy (especially for wo…

He has been in the US since college, for longer than some of his employees have been alive. I don't think that's a good excuse.

I'm inclined to agree with the GP. Attitudes about money, negotiation and status are formed early in life and while you can outgrow them it's difficult to shake them off entirely.

I've been in the US nearly half my life (from Ireland originally) but I can't see myself getting used to that aspect of American business culture. My instinctive view is that if I'm you're employee and you're happy with my performance, it's your job to put your money where your mouth is, not mine to come to you asking for more. My compromise approach these days is that when someone solicits my help I ask them how much they've budgeted for the work they want done/ If the answer is not a positive sum, then I ask them what area they're willing to accept and equivalent loss of productivity.

Re: Satya Nadella Email to Employees: RE: Grace Hopper Conference

#69

Post by danielweber »

nandemo wrote: post #35
quesera wrote: post #9

The question remains: did he merely misspeak, or is he actually that disconnected from what it's like to have a job? It's good to see a clear and quick retraction, but jeez -- did the words really reflect a thought he had in his head?

I'm surprised that people are surprised. I'm male and I've heard variations of "you shouldn't ask for a raise/bigger salary" many times from my managers or hiring managers (when looking for a job). For example: "you shouldn't be focusing on money, just do great work and the financial rewards will come [someday]". Or "we are looking for people who have passion for $whatever_our_company_does, not people who are primari…

Yeah, I've heard that, too.

Fuck those guys. I remember Steven Yegge said "every time someone has tried to make me happy with money they've succeeded, usually on the first try."

Post reply on HN