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Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#21

Post by rawland »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #14
brianstorms wrote: post #3

Schmidt did NOT say that surveillance fears are going to "end up breaking the internet." That is the Washington Post's misleading headline. He spoke more about the erosion of international trust because of American surveillance activities. To hear what Schmidt did say, watch the actual video. He starts talking at around the 21-minute point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-P4Q-M1tW8 The actual quote is at around 24:…

I guess I'm missing whatever distinction people are trying to make here. He says he thinks that fears of surveillance will lead to the breakup of the internet. Which is what the headline says. What am I missing here?

Context.

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#22

Post by EthanHeilman »

rayiner wrote: post #12
EthanHeilman wrote: post #6

>"The simplest outcome is we're going to end up breaking the Internet," said Google's Schmidt. Foreign governments, he said, are "eventually going to say, we want our own Internet in our country because we want it to work our way, and we don't want the NSA and these other people in it." This age of Nation-States, and their private agents, attacking other countries companies through the internet reminds me of the age…

> This age of Nation-States, and their private agents, attacking other countries companies through the internet reminds me of the age of piracy in which nations employed privateers acting under a letter of marque to harass and destroy enemy commercial shipping interests. How does any nation think this is an acceptable non-warlike behavior to do allies and friendly nations? It's an irrelevant question. They don't have…

>It's an irrelevant question. They don't have to consider it acceptable--they do it because they can.

There are many things that states can do but don't. Why states don't do those things can be for self-interested, ideological, social, culture, ethical or constitution/legal reasons.

>And the major powers don't do it, in turn, because they have more to gain from trade than from piracy.

I think there is a good argument to be made that destroying the internet via proxy conflicts for limited intelligence gain is not in any of the big players long term interest (although it may be in the interests of state security organisations as it expands their mission/importance). Schmidt seems to agree with me.

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#23

Post by afarrell »

mikeash wrote: post #13
EthanHeilman wrote: post #6

>"The simplest outcome is we're going to end up breaking the Internet," said Google's Schmidt. Foreign governments, he said, are "eventually going to say, we want our own Internet in our country because we want it to work our way, and we don't want the NSA and these other people in it." This age of Nation-States, and their private agents, attacking other countries companies through the internet reminds me of the age…

They think it's acceptable because they can get away with it. We live in a nation of government and laws and it's so ingrained that it's hard to imagine any other way. But the international stage is pure anarchy. There's no authority, no meta-government, and all that guides behavior is precedent, promises, threats, and reactions. Countries will stop attacking each other through the internet the moment they think that…

All systems that attempt to implement justice are ultimately built upon the monstrously unjust platform of "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must".

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#24

Post by hahainternet »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #14
brianstorms wrote: post #3

Schmidt did NOT say that surveillance fears are going to "end up breaking the internet." That is the Washington Post's misleading headline. He spoke more about the erosion of international trust because of American surveillance activities. To hear what Schmidt did say, watch the actual video. He starts talking at around the 21-minute point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-P4Q-M1tW8 The actual quote is at around 24:…

I guess I'm missing whatever distinction people are trying to make here. He says he thinks that fears of surveillance will lead to the breakup of the internet. Which is what the headline says. What am I missing here?

I think the distinction is between "Fear of being surveilled" and "Fear of the NSA surveillance program"

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#25

Post by at-fates-hands »

brianstorms wrote: post #3

Schmidt did NOT say that surveillance fears are going to "end up breaking the internet." That is the Washington Post's misleading headline. He spoke more about the erosion of international trust because of American surveillance activities. To hear what Schmidt did say, watch the actual video. He starts talking at around the 21-minute point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-P4Q-M1tW8 The actual quote is at around 24:…

>>> He spoke more about the erosion of international trust because of American surveillance activities.

The irony here is that the US is one of the most hacked countries on the planet. And where do you think those attacks originate? Yup, you guessed it. . . Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.

One should not give trust when one has not earned it.

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#26

Post by afarrell »

mikeash wrote: post #15
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"With only a bare majority of Americans opposed to U.S. government anti-terrorism surveillance," it's first and foremost a political one [1]. [1] http://www.people-press.org/2013/07/26/few-see-adequate-limi...

More specifically, a public opinion problem. Techies tend to think that the US government has gone rogue and is defying the people, who universally want to tone this stuff down. But really, the government is just responding to the will of the people here. Many Americans are terrified of terrorism and approve of these sorts of government efforts to fight it.

As communities become more and more siloed, people will increasingly assume that their social bubble's opinions are the opinions and will of the majority. They will then look to the behavior of legislators and see "the will of the majority" being disregarded. This bodes ill for representative democracy, especially in a two-party system like the US.

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#27

Post by higherpurpose »

brianstorms wrote: post #3

Schmidt did NOT say that surveillance fears are going to "end up breaking the internet." That is the Washington Post's misleading headline. He spoke more about the erosion of international trust because of American surveillance activities. To hear what Schmidt did say, watch the actual video. He starts talking at around the 21-minute point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-P4Q-M1tW8 The actual quote is at around 24:…

Washington Post (or is it Jeff Bezos himself?) seems to really take the government's side lately.

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#28

Post by higherpurpose »

Google (and others) has a simple solution to this: encrypt everything end-to-end. If Google can't know what the user's data is, then neither can the US government (supposedly). That should increase the trust other countries put into Google and other tech companies.

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#29

Post by CPLX »

higherpurpose wrote: post #27
brianstorms wrote: post #3

Schmidt did NOT say that surveillance fears are going to "end up breaking the internet." That is the Washington Post's misleading headline. He spoke more about the erosion of international trust because of American surveillance activities. To hear what Schmidt did say, watch the actual video. He starts talking at around the 21-minute point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-P4Q-M1tW8 The actual quote is at around 24:…

Washington Post (or is it Jeff Bezos himself?) seems to really take the government's side lately.

The Washington Post is deeply tied into the political and government establishment of Washington and has been for decades. This sort of thing really doesn't represent a change in tone.

Re: Google’s Schmidt: Surveillance fears are ‘going to end up breaking the Internet’

#30

Post by ColinDabritz »

hahainternet wrote: post #24
waterlesscloud wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm missing whatever distinction people are trying to make here. He says he thinks that fears of surveillance will lead to the breakup of the internet. Which is what the headline says. What am I missing here?

I think the distinction is between "Fear of being surveilled" and "Fear of the NSA surveillance program"

Exactly, the headline turns "the surveillance we are doing and have done" will break the internet, to "being afraid of surveillance" (implying "without reason") will break the internet.
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