Ask HN: Does “diversity hiring” lower the bar for certain groups? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Does “diversity hiring” lower the bar for certain groups?

#11

Post by bbissoon » Thu, Oct 09, 2014, 2:14 PM UTC

jonpress wrote: post #2

I don't think people should be given special treatment because they belong to a particular group. It's not a HR problem - It's a problem with society itself. Certain groups will inevitably lag behind (in terms of number of candidates) in certain fields because of complex social factors which companies cannot really change (and maybe it's even wrong to try to change them). There are complex social and psychological re…

You assume the current way of doing things is the best way. "Special Treatment" isn't special. The way many companies currently operate promotes "Special Treatment" more-so.

The past dictates the present, exposures dictate the future. A kid from the slums might have a "natural" interest in what they see day in and day out. However, they could be gifted in other areas and don't find out until they're exposed to it.

Relying on "natural" interest is a way of instantly labeling people via statistics. Job incentives get people to learn about trades, money keeps them loyal to that trade/company. That's why university students change their majors so often - they grow, see better outcomes in other fields and follow the one that's more beneficial for the future they envision.

A natural deposition helps you excel but that's about it.

In total to think about Diversity:

Companies are living organisms and in order to ensure survival you must diversify. If you've lived in a vacuum your entire live and you encounter a common cold virus, you're going to go through hell to survive it. Your body has no experience dealing with it and it's thrown off course. Think natives and small pox from Europeans - Complete Die Off.

As companies diversify, they become immune to cultural shifts and are more prepared to grow and thrive in all situations. They don't make blunders in ignorance, they handle their customers better and they grow stronger because of support and loyalty cultivated in various groups or people - Think Coke. One group of people get mad, they have 50 more who support them.

Re: Ask HN: Does “diversity hiring” lower the bar for certain groups?

#12

Post by bjourne » Thu, Oct 09, 2014, 4:00 PM UTC

If you think the playing field is anywhere near equal, or based on merit, you haven't been working long enough or just aren't cynical enough. Almost everywhere, hiring wifes, friends and relatives is the norm. And people aren't shy about asking if the secretary on interview looked pretty. Saying they were "joking" but there's a kernel of truth...

Virtually everyone has had the "bar lowered" for themselves in some way (noone is entirely self-made). So complaining when disadvantaged groups also gets it is silly.

Re: Ask HN: Does “diversity hiring” lower the bar for certain groups?

#13

Post by DanBC » Thu, Oct 09, 2014, 6:32 PM UTC

clwen wrote: post #10

DanBC wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mentioned dversity. That is usually interpreted to mean "protected characteristics". While these are different in different countries they usually include: • Sex and gender identity; sexuality • age • race • religion • disability • parenting status and others. You also asked about lowering the bar to employ these people - the clear implication being that a worker with a protected characteristic is of a lower stan…

Let me re-iterate myself: I didn't mention any specific attribute, not to say specific gender or ethic groups. So, what you are saying here is probably not a natural interpretation to draw from my question. I do agree with the cultural fit part though. It's subjective and easy to manipulate to what direction as convenient to the company. Talk about "dumb", I don't think sane companies will ever hire anybody who they…

I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say.

Everythin you write makes me think that you're saying that diversity means a company has to lower the bar; and that they get other benefits for doing that - public image is one example you give.

The only possible conclusion to draw from that is that yu're saying people with a protected characteristic are not as "good" as the general population.

Re: Ask HN: Does “diversity hiring” lower the bar for certain groups?

#14

Post by meowface » Thu, Oct 09, 2014, 11:50 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #13

clwen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me re-iterate myself: I didn't mention any specific attribute, not to say specific gender or ethic groups. So, what you are saying here is probably not a natural interpretation to draw from my question. I do agree with the cultural fit part though. It's subjective and easy to manipulate to what direction as convenient to the company. Talk about "dumb", I don't think sane companies will ever hire anybody who they…

I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say. Everythin you write makes me think that you're saying that diversity means a company has to lower the bar; and that they get other benefits for doing that - public image is one example you give. The only possible conclusion to draw from that is that yu're saying people with a protected characteristic are not as "good" as the general population.

What's not to understand about what he's asking?

His question is regarding so-called "affirmative action" or quota-like initiatives in companies, where those with a protected status are given a preference in hiring purely based on their protected status. That's what he means by lowering the bar.

I don't know how many companies do this, but many people on HN (including myself) agree that such practices are unfair. I agree with sarahj's comment on the matter: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8431039

Creating a good environment for diversity is about noticing and eliminating biases, and trying to provide an equal playing field for all potential candidates. OP appears to be concerned that some companies will take things further than that to give "diverse" candidates an unequal advantage. That's all.

Re: Ask HN: Does “diversity hiring” lower the bar for certain groups?

#15

Post by Mangalor » Mon, Oct 13, 2014, 2:43 AM UTC

jonpress wrote: post #2

I don't think people should be given special treatment because they belong to a particular group. It's not a HR problem - It's a problem with society itself. Certain groups will inevitably lag behind (in terms of number of candidates) in certain fields because of complex social factors which companies cannot really change (and maybe it's even wrong to try to change them). There are complex social and psychological re…

"no natural interest in"

This is an assumption on the part of the privileged group.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/10/12/silicon-valley...