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Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

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Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I thought the people like Moravec and Kurzweil were predicting 2030 to 2040? I have not seen any analysis from anyone that would push it off past 2100.

Kurzweil is not respected in the AI community. I have never heard of Moravec. I thought Scott Aaronson had a survey of AI researchers where they were asked how long they though AGI would take but I can't find it now.

>Kurzweil is not respected in the AI community. I have never heard of Moravec.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Moravec

I don’t care what people think about when (or if) we achieve AGI, I want to know why they think a particular date. What analysis have they done to reach their conclusion?

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I thought the people like Moravec and Kurzweil were predicting 2030 to 2040? I have not seen any analysis from anyone that would push it off past 2100.

You might as well say that we gona create a Warp drive by 2100. Jump necessary for AI advancement makes settlement on Mars an easy problem. We are so far from that we really have no idea how far it is. Human level AI when it happens and it probably will will most likely be at a stage where current tech would seem something out of Ancient Greeks time if not Stone age.

Wow! That far? I feel sad. Kurzweil had me hopeful that I'd be able to use it in next 30 years.

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#33

I read Thiel’s book and he claims that the rise of human level computing intelligence is a problem for the 22nd century. Does anyone know why he thinks that it is so far off?

Because everyone else does?

http://www.sophia.de/pdf/2014_PT-AI_polls.pdf

>We thus designed a brief questionnaire and distributed it to four groups of experts in 2012/2013. The median estimate of respondents was for a one in two chance that high-level machine intelligence will be developed around 2040-2050, rising to a nine in ten chance by 2075. Experts expect that systems will move on to superintelligence in less than 30 years thereafter. They estimate the chance is about one in three that this development turns out to be ‘bad’ or ‘extremely bad’ for humanity.

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#34
I really appreciate many points in this article, especially showing that people in the 60s thought that they were in just as much of a decline as we do now.

But there's also a weird anti-environmentalism threaded through the article. Toward the end, the author lists things that we now think are bad, as an example of how we've become pessimistic. Including: "New subdivisions represented a threat to the landscape rather than the promise of the good life. [...] Insecticides harmed eagles’ eggs." Those are and were legitimate concerns!

Just because we are correctly critical of some aspects of technological process doesn't mean we have become a bunch of petty pessimists who are just trying to make everyone feel bad.

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#35
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fundamentally disagree -- there is a difference between incremental and revolutionary advances. They are qualitatively different types of steps. http://adamierymenko.com/c/ Nevertheless this Bloomberg article makes a good concrete counterpoint to Thiel and Stephenson. Part of the problem is that these things are horribly difficult to quantify. How do you measure "fundamental advance?" I'm not aware of any good metr…

> I wonder though if the real problem isn't the decline in wage parity since ~1970. It's not that innovation's stopped, but the rate at which people can afford new innovation has slowed since more and more people can't afford anything but basic necessities. Parity is not purchasing power. Inflation adjusted wages for the bottom quintile are up 20% from 1970. The poor/middle-class getting poorer has only happened sinc…

Middle class income has been flat since the 70s and discretionary income has decreased.

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kurzweil is not respected in the AI community. I have never heard of Moravec. I thought Scott Aaronson had a survey of AI researchers where they were asked how long they though AGI would take but I can't find it now.

>Kurzweil is not respected in the AI community. I have never heard of Moravec. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Moravec I don’t care what people think about when (or if) we achieve AGI, I want to know why they think a particular date. What analysis have they done to reach their conclusion?

> I want to know why they think a particular date. What analysis have they done to reach their conclusion?

Kurzweil is terrified of his own mortality and counting on "The Singularity" to allow him to upload his immortal ~soul~ consciousness into a computer.

That's why he's predicting a date within his lifespan.

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might as well say that we gona create a Warp drive by 2100. Jump necessary for AI advancement makes settlement on Mars an easy problem. We are so far from that we really have no idea how far it is. Human level AI when it happens and it probably will will most likely be at a stage where current tech would seem something out of Ancient Greeks time if not Stone age.

Wow! That far? I feel sad. Kurzweil had me hopeful that I'd be able to use it in next 30 years.

From Terence Tao:

"The funny thing about AI is that it’s a moving target. In the seventies, someone might ask “what are the goals of AI?” And you might say, “Oh, we want a computer who can beat a chess master, or who can understand actual language speech, or who can search a whole database very quickly.” We do all that now, like face recognition. All these things that we thought were AI, we can do them. But once you do them, you don’t think of them as AI. It has this connotation of some mysterious magical component to it, but when you actually solve one of these problems, you don’t solve it using magic, you solve it using clever mathematics. It’s no longer magical. It becomes science, and then you don’t think of it as AI anymore. It’s amazing how you can speak into your phone and ask for the nearest Thai restaurant, and it will find it. This would have been called AI, but we don’t think about it like that anymore. So I think, almost by definition, we will never have AI because we’ll never achieve the goals of AI or cease to be caught up with it."

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rinL25rC8LnMTzZcGjg1axT-...

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#38
Why is Virginia Postrel writing an article to posture with no substance? Author of "The Substance of Style", she writes an article representing the over-inflation of stupidly half-aggressive titles filled with not much at all, and to top it all off she threw in commercials at the end.

Yes, half an article to refute not a real point Thiel has made so that "Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future". Does Virginia Postrel think that 'countering' points that have not been made with

"People are justifiably wary of grandiose plans that impose major costs on those who won’t directly reap their benefits. " should validate such a title?

MetaMed & MIRI do not have a chance to improve people's lives? Contracts that are not completely recursive to violence based on the blockchain(Ethereum) cannot change peoples lives?

Palantir to improve law-enforcement while having personal liberties hard-coded in do not count? In an age where surveillance has become industrial? When before the greatest protection was being locked in file cabinets?

but do not forget that all of Thiel's relatively nuanced views are countered by....

"Directed by Steven Soderbergh, the series depicts decidedly flawed characters living in an exciting but brutal period and improving surgery through clever, risky and -- by today’s standards -- often-high-handed medical procedures." OhMyGod.

Ah yes. Now I can see the point that was being made. Not really. When you are going to write articles with sleight posturing, it would be good to have direct quotes about statements that were actually made and then getting to it.

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#39
> “There’s an automatic perception ... that everything’s dangerous,” Stephenson mused at a recent event in Los Angeles, citing the Stonehenge example, “and that there’s some cosmic balance at work--that if there’s an advance somewhere it must have a terrible cost.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good thing? We should be worrying about trade-offs. There are myriad examples from the past (DDT, Thalidomide, Chernobyl) of humans racing ahead to use new technologies without taking sufficient time to consider the consequences.

Re: Peter Thiel Is Wrong About the Future

#40

I really appreciate many points in this article, especially showing that people in the 60s thought that they were in just as much of a decline as we do now. But there's also a weird anti-environmentalism threaded through the article. Toward the end, the author lists things that we now think are bad, as an example of how we've become pessimistic. Including: "New subdivisions represented a threat to the landscape rathe…

-Just because we are correctly critical of some aspects of technological process doesn't mean we have become a bunch of petty pessimists who are just trying to make everyone feel bad.

maybe you stop at those things, i doubt thats the case but lets assume you do. you think these ideas are a tree with the wind of truth and reason blowing through your leaves. however its a tree in a forest of never ending complaining, negativity, and loathing on every step of progress. things like zoos are torturing animals into slavery, panning for gold is made illegal because it might disturb the fish - and they cant take it, companies like monsanato dont produce science and research into better crops to stop famine, they are an evil empire destroying the ecology and sapping humanity for all its worth. space program? forget it, why spend on wasteful things like that when we can spend more money on health and education.

the spit and the acid that people around me say towards those who choose to live in rural or suburban areas astounds me.

although i do find it amusing, they live in their concrete cities that destroyed all the ecology around them, but somehow believe they have special knowledge to tell people (who did not destroy the ecology around them) how they should live with regards to environmentalism.

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