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Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

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Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was every 50 years, not 7. And it also stated that prisoners would be freed. We don't actually do everything the bible says to do... thankfully. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(Christianity)

There's some ambiguity in the scriptures. See Deuteromy 15:1-11: "At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts. This is how it is to be done: Every creditor shall cancel the loan he has made to his fellow Israelite. He shall not require payment from his fellow Israelite or brother, because the LORD's time for canceling debts has been proclaimed." ( http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/passage.aspx?q=de…

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Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way it is now, you lose your keys and you're effectively homeless. This is why people have spare keys under mats. This is why backups are a good idea. Have everything on your phone, but still keep a spare key if you lock yourself out, keep a spare method of identification, keep a spare method of payment. I don't see why we would sacrifice redundancy when we consolidate to make things more convenient. Does the wor…

> Does the world end when you lose your keys or wallet now? No. > Then why would it things[sic] change if their form changes? Because the forms are consolidated into one: if you had your way, losing one's phone could mean losing keys, ID, wallet, etc. It's replacing metal fucking keys --the only thing allowing you into your home (without breaking in)--with fragile electronics. Oh, and what would happen if you had you…

This isn't really going anywhere, so I'll make my last set of points. Relevant http://xkcd.com/386/.

> losing one's phone could mean losing keys, ID, wallet, etc.

Yes. It also means replacing them all is also only one step: getting a new phone and restoring settings from the cloud. Some comparisons: Losing my keys: Analog: --4 with backups are a quick trip to a local Lowes or Home Depot, ~30 min, ~5 bucks --2 without backups == I'm buying new locks. Same trip to Lowes, also installation time of an hour or so. ~$250 bucks. (also a good reason for me to go make the 30 min, couple buck trip to make copies now) --1 car key. Trip to the car dealership. At least an hour, minimum $300. Total: several hours, ~$600. Phone: --1 trip to T-mobile, cost of new phone. Total: an hour, cost of new phone.

Losing my wallet: Analog: --3 credit cards, 1 debit card: ~15 min/card for calling and ordering replacements, > 2 days until a replacement arrives. Free. --health insurance card. >30 min phone call. Probably more. Health Insurance has the worst customer service, a week before replacement. Probably free. --Driver's license. Between 30 min and 6 hours at the DMV. ~$50. --Clipper. Quick to order online, takes a few days to show up. $3. --Safeway Club Card, Membership cards. Probably a trip and a few minutes per card. Probably free. Total: > 1 week to return to normal. The problem with these comparisons is that they compare losing keys or a wallet with losing a phone. I would argue from personal experience that it's much easier to keep track of 1 object than 3, but that's not exactly solid. The negative arguments might make more sense: comparing losing a phone in both situations.

Now, it is true that consolidation increases the consequences of a lost phone. It requires backup methods of personal identity, payment, and home access, which as I said before is true of both wallet and keys anyway. It is, however, much easier and quicker to recover everything lost: 1 trip and one restoration done in minutes or hours instead of requiring many trips over the course of many days. Replacing a phone is really easy these days since everything is stored in the cloud.

> Oh, and what would happen if you had your way and someone lost their phone? "Oh well, lemme make a call and see if I can get a replaceme--oh, wait..."

Really? This is just obstinance. Do you really try to replace your lost phone by making a call with your phone? No. You go to a store or order one online.

>Replacing my ID, keys, and cards wouldn't be fun, but all of that would be a fucking pleasant walk in the park compared to replacing a phone containing all of those things.

I've lost a wallet before. That was a nightmare. Hours and hours wasted calling CC companies, the DMV sucks. A long time to recover. Keys are similar. A few years ago I had a phone stolen. Remote wiped it, ordered a new one online and picked it up in store, life as usual an hour later. Not a big deal like you're making it out to be, and honestly not very much different than losing a phone today since you need proper backups in either situation.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#283

As some have pointed out, Citi had this[1] since about 2004, Fleet/Bank of America [2] had it in their setup as well for as long as i can remember. The problem is going to be PCI compliance - the rules that govern merchant procedure for accepting physical credit cards. Specifically, the last 4 digits must be visually validated on the card and typed in to avoid cloned cards (chips largely solve this) in most stores. F…

The banks' monitoring software is in fact a hassle for me. I've only ever had legitimate purchases denied. The retailer's order flow is not usually optimised for this case, requiring a tedious, often manual process to get my order reinstated, while at the same time often causing the retailer to treat me with suspicion (they can't tell why the charge was denied the first time, and are sometimes reluctant or unable to…

I would look into other credit cards or banks then. Capital one and my local back (San Francisco Fire) just talk to me about "hey we've noticed these suspicious transactions, verify please?"

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is too funny - my bank in Turkey ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garanti_Bank ) had this 10 years ago! I wonder why banks in the US are so ingrained in their ways and horribly slow at updating themselves. edit: They also had an SMS cash thing where you can "send" cash to anyone, which is really a code you can use at any ATM to redeem cash.

I was recently in the U.S. and saw a person use a paper cheque. I'm not joking.

Cost to do a wire transfer with my bank: $20 and I need their account # and bank routing #

Cost to go online and have my bank mail someone a paper cheque: $0 and I need their name and address.

Guess how I send people money?

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does the world end when you lose your keys or wallet now? No. > Then why would it things[sic] change if their form changes? Because the forms are consolidated into one: if you had your way, losing one's phone could mean losing keys, ID, wallet, etc. It's replacing metal fucking keys --the only thing allowing you into your home (without breaking in)--with fragile electronics. Oh, and what would happen if you had you…

This isn't really going anywhere, so I'll make my last set of points. Relevant http://xkcd.com/386/ . > losing one's phone could mean losing keys, ID, wallet, etc. Yes. It also means replacing them all is also only one step: getting a new phone and restoring settings from the cloud. Some comparisons: Losing my keys: Analog: --4 with backups are a quick trip to a local Lowes or Home Depot, ~30 min, ~5 bucks --2 withou…

So, let's say you get your way and lose your phone, and let's say you lose it outside walking distance from your home.

How will you get a new phone? You can't call anyone. You can't drive anywhere. You can't take a bus or subway or train. You can't take a cab. You'd either have to walk or hitchhike (or, if you were with someone you know, you could catch a ride).

But where would you go? You can't go home. You could try going to a Verizon/T-Mobile/etc store, but you can't pay for a new phone. Even if you had sufficient cash on you, you'd probably need to show ID (which you can't do).

"Ah ha! Cash!", I possibly hear you say. Well, you could try to get to a branch of your bank, but you don't have ID, so you're unlikely to be able to withdraw anything (and that's assuming that you arrive when the bank is open...since you don't have your phone you can't use an ATM, of course).

So, honest question: if you had your way, how would anyone be able to replace a suddenly broken or lost phone?

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#288
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt isn't a moral obligation, and to somehow frame it as such is dubious at best. If you as a debt owner or servicer can't keep your books straight, you have absolutely no business attempting to collect on a debt. If you're taking someone to court or attempting to take their wages, you better be damn sure you're in the right.

I believe most people would say that when they agree to take money with a promise to repay it, they are under a moral obligation to do so.

Except that's not what happens, you borrow money with the explicit notion that you might not repay it; that's what sets the interest rate, both sides know that going in. There's nothing at all immoral about choosing to suffer the hit on your credit rather than repay as both options are expected possible outcomes in the original deal.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#289
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe most people would say that when they agree to take money with a promise to repay it, they are under a moral obligation to do so.

The bible calls for a debt jubilee - forgiveness of all debts - every seven years. No such thing has happened in hundreds of years. So who acting immorally, again?

The bible doesn't define morality nor are its recommendations necessarily moral.

Re: Final – A credit card built for the 21st century

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US banking system is frankly, ridiculous In Europe anyone can send money online to any other account in the EU , given the account number, usually for free. The fact that the US doesn't have that as commonplace as in Europe is ridiculous Canada is slightly better, they already are ditching the magnetic stripes off cards.

But I shouldn't have to give you my account number for you to send me money. I don't really want to maintain a mental list of who has my account number and who to update if I change banks or something. I'm not saying checks are the best solution for all situations but they have enough use cases to make them somewhere better than ridiculous . Every time my cleaning lady comes, I just leave a check for her on the count…

Isn't your account number on the check?
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